|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 10, 2024 22:48:33 GMT
Here is a little bit of philosophical musings for you. The thing that sparked this idea was a discussion I was having where I pointed out that China Post will deliver 100g of post for 7p, in a discussion about the proposed cost-cutting at the post office where the same package would cost you £3.25. My point was simple and proven. If China can do it for 7p then it is possible to cut the cost of the £3.25 currently charged. I explained the primary reason for the difference in price was automation.
So what?
What can you say about that to argue anything other than yes it can be done, but someone pipped up, "It's the unions mate".
I can't argue with that either. Yes it can be physically done with absolutely certainty, and no it can't be done because of the unions, with about as much certainty to it that is can physically be done!
So we are back to a very familiar conundrum here in Blighty where a thing that improves life can definitely be done on the one hand, but in practice everyone believes it would never be done.
So why? What makes our country so stupid all the time? I had a long think about it and the best I could come up with was in China they don't have these unions. I suppose you could say the government is the union, as the government is the people's party and was created at the very beginning in a factory dispute on working conditions, so if the government is one giant union then you don't need any more!
I was not happy with this explanation, so having thought a bit more came to the conclusion the reason we always end up shit creek is, well think about it. You have a union and you have the management. This is like football. Indeed, everywhere you look in this country you have two teams and each has the opposite view of the other, and they fight it out Hegelian fashion to forge an ideal synthesis. Hmm, well that's what they tell you, but we can see it fails nearly every time. Why not just have the one team? How can China work OK with one team when we all implicitly feel we must have an opposition?
The Chinese government is both the union and the innovator. They believe the best way of serving the people it to help the firms become more efficient so they can afford to pay the staff more. This is the idea of cracking the root cause of the problem and letting things percolate through the system so the workers finally see the fruits of the government's efforts. So there is neither any conflict between the government and the management either, since the management like profit as much as anyone else. The kind of government help would be more along the lines of free partnering with the local uni to develop robotics. They are long-term planners.
The two approaches are rooted in the two different cultures, which developed almost entirely independent of one another. The thing is we let the past rule us. The adversarial practice in academic debate goes back to Thomas Aquinas in the 13c, but the adversarial system itself probably comes from the Greeks and their gladiators. Their chief industry though was war.
|
|
|
|
Post by piglet on Oct 11, 2024 9:38:24 GMT
You back everyone but britain baron.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Oct 11, 2024 10:04:12 GMT
China is still considered a “transitional” country by the UPU, which means it enjoys a lower rate for sending mail to a developed nation like the US. As a result, mail services from China to the US cost less than Americans are charged by their own postal service for a comparable domestic delivery. This gives Chinese sellers a competitive edge over American sellers, especially in e-commerce platforms like eBay or Amazon, where shipping cost is a major factor for buyers. medium.com/@contact_53404/why-is-it-so-cheap-to-ship-from-china-to-the-usa-b84ef79ff2ab8. Subsidized postal rates Have you ever wondered how shipping from China can be so affordable? The answer lies in the Universal Postal Union (UPU), which is an agreement that countries will carry other countries' parcels for a small fee or even for free. The UPU is set up so that rich countries pay a higher fee to get their international mail delivered while developing countries pay a much smaller fee. For many years, China was seen as a developing country and benefitted from insanely low shipping rates. According to the CBC, shipping a part from China to the US could cost less than $1, while shipping that same part within the US would cost $22.99. The difference in cost is paid by the American taxpayers. Of course, this agreement heavily benefits China, while it's a huge cost for the US. dodropshipping.com/reasons-why-aliexpress-is-so-cheap/#:~:text=8.-,Subsidized%20postal%20rates,fee%20or%20even%20for%20free. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 10:13:01 GMT
You back everyone but britain baron. Not at all. I'm trying to figure out why we keep on failing at everything. Backing failure is encouraging more of the same stupid practices. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 10:25:08 GMT
China is still considered a “transitional” country by the UPU, which means it enjoys a lower rate for sending mail to a developed nation like the US. As a result, mail services from China to the US cost less than Americans are charged by their own postal service for a comparable domestic delivery. This gives Chinese sellers a competitive edge over American sellers, especially in e-commerce platforms like eBay or Amazon, where shipping cost is a major factor for buyers. medium.com/@contact_53404/why-is-it-so-cheap-to-ship-from-china-to-the-usa-b84ef79ff2ab8. Subsidized postal rates Have you ever wondered how shipping from China can be so affordable? The answer lies in the Universal Postal Union (UPU), which is an agreement that countries will carry other countries' parcels for a small fee or even for free. The UPU is set up so that rich countries pay a higher fee to get their international mail delivered while developing countries pay a much smaller fee. For many years, China was seen as a developing country and benefitted from insanely low shipping rates. According to the CBC, shipping a part from China to the US could cost less than $1, while shipping that same part within the US would cost $22.99. The difference in cost is paid by the American taxpayers. Of course, this agreement heavily benefits China, while it's a huge cost for the US. dodropshipping.com/reasons-why-aliexpress-is-so-cheap/#:~:text=8.-,Subsidized%20postal%20rates,fee%20or%20even%20for%20free. Oh I'm well aware of that. Half of the contents of my workshop is taking advantage of that little gem. I believe the loophole has been closed to some degree now as the postage is about min £1.50, often £2-£3 here. This is what made me aware of China Post rates. The Chinese told me "China Post only do upto 100g". If you wanted say 150g sent, they would split it into two deliveries. Anyhow regardless of that, it is 7p delivery to anywhere in China and China is a lot larger than the UK. That's not the be all and end of it either. The service itself is ultra slick and much faster and more reliable than Royal Mail. I had a few packages go missing. but more often it was this end of things. Inside China Post is a sea of robots. It's like a science fiction movie.
The thing is, do you think British unions make the workers happy? We pay a huge price for their 17th century management skills. What is the payback?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Oct 11, 2024 10:34:57 GMT
China is still considered a “transitional” country by the UPU, which means it enjoys a lower rate for sending mail to a developed nation like the US. As a result, mail services from China to the US cost less than Americans are charged by their own postal service for a comparable domestic delivery. This gives Chinese sellers a competitive edge over American sellers, especially in e-commerce platforms like eBay or Amazon, where shipping cost is a major factor for buyers. medium.com/@contact_53404/why-is-it-so-cheap-to-ship-from-china-to-the-usa-b84ef79ff2ab8. Subsidized postal rates Have you ever wondered how shipping from China can be so affordable? The answer lies in the Universal Postal Union (UPU), which is an agreement that countries will carry other countries' parcels for a small fee or even for free. The UPU is set up so that rich countries pay a higher fee to get their international mail delivered while developing countries pay a much smaller fee. For many years, China was seen as a developing country and benefitted from insanely low shipping rates. According to the CBC, shipping a part from China to the US could cost less than $1, while shipping that same part within the US would cost $22.99. The difference in cost is paid by the American taxpayers. Of course, this agreement heavily benefits China, while it's a huge cost for the US. dodropshipping.com/reasons-why-aliexpress-is-so-cheap/#:~:text=8.-,Subsidized%20postal%20rates,fee%20or%20even%20for%20free. Oh I'm well aware of that. Half of the contents of my workshop is taking advantage of that little gem. I believe the loophole has been closed to some degree now as the postage is about min £1.50, often £2-£3 here. This is what made me aware of China Post rates. The Chinese told me "China Post only do upto 100g". If you wanted say 150g sent, they would split it into two deliveries. Anyhow regardless of that, it is 7p delivery to anywhere in China and China is a lot larger than the UK. That's not the be all and end of it either. The service itself is ultra slick and much faster and more reliable than Royal Mail. I had a few packages go missing. but more often it was this end of things. Inside China Post is a sea of robots. It's like a science fiction movie.
The thing is, do you think British unions make the workers happy? We pay a huge price for their 17th century management skills. What is the payback?
Chinas post is effectively subsidised by the West . Trump pointed this out years ago and partially closed it afaik. You assume that Chinese workers are all happy . When did you visit China to see the sea of robots ? |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Oct 11, 2024 10:49:44 GMT
Mod Notice
Remember that this thread is in Mind Zone - keep your replies relevant to the discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 11:25:06 GMT
Oh I'm well aware of that. Half of the contents of my workshop is taking advantage of that little gem. I believe the loophole has been closed to some degree now as the postage is about min £1.50, often £2-£3 here. This is what made me aware of China Post rates. The Chinese told me "China Post only do upto 100g". If you wanted say 150g sent, they would split it into two deliveries. Anyhow regardless of that, it is 7p delivery to anywhere in China and China is a lot larger than the UK. That's not the be all and end of it either. The service itself is ultra slick and much faster and more reliable than Royal Mail. I had a few packages go missing. but more often it was this end of things. Inside China Post is a sea of robots. It's like a science fiction movie.
The thing is, do you think British unions make the workers happy? We pay a huge price for their 17th century management skills. What is the payback?
Chinas post is effectively subsidised by the West . Trump pointed this out years ago and partially closed it afaik. You assume that Chinese workers are all happy . When did you visit China to see the sea of robots ? No that is a misunderstanding. If Royal Mail were a carbon copy of China Post then it would be 7p in this country and the whole thing would be financially neutral. It's a case of how you measure it. You could measure it as a service or a cost. They both perform the same service, i.e. honour deliveries sent to them, but it is not China's fault Royal Mail is so expensive. China does not go out of its way to exploit the West. It is not hostile in the way Trump paints them. A Chinese business is much like our own. They just look at the cost options and find the cheapest way. To give them credit, they are very clever at cutting cost to an absolute minimum. You don't even get a receipt, just the item in an envelope with a custom's declaration.
Here are the robots.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Oct 11, 2024 11:30:51 GMT
You back everyone but britain baron. Not at all. I'm trying to figure out why we keep on failing at everything. Backing failure is encouraging more of the same stupid practices. We aren't. But the simple fact is we pay decent wages, in China there are slave wages. How does a civilised country compete with uncivilised slave wage dictatorship? Answer, sanction them. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 11:51:41 GMT
Not at all. I'm trying to figure out why we keep on failing at everything. Backing failure is encouraging more of the same stupid practices. We aren't. But the simple fact is we pay decent wages, in China there are slave wages. How does a civilised country compete with uncivilised slave wage dictatorship? Answer, sanction them. Here is a little advert for you:
You can tell it is Chiense by the grammar.
Try reading between the lines. What is important to the Chinese customer? You see this in many Chiense ads. They sell stuff on their techniocal abilities and new technology. Thay arn't selling these things to improve youer sex life as it is in the Edward Bernays influence in US marketing. All Chinese are techno heads, even the young girls.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Oct 11, 2024 11:57:44 GMT
Slave wages.
Answer? Sanctions.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 12:30:31 GMT
The wages in China have seen the fastest rises anywhere in the world. It's still 7p for a delivery and still 7p for a unit of leccy.
The problem I was hoping people would get around to is, lets suppose someone in a political party in the UK stood up and said the unions are holding us back. I propose that if I become prime minister, I will ban every union in the country. How do you suppose people would react to the idea that you can trust the management and if you can't then just leave. In China, ask anyone about their factory job, and they will say they really appreciate the management for giving them the job and opportunity to work. What I want to know is why can we not have management like this here? Why do we need an opposing force, and if we use one, what does it achieve in practice?
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Oct 11, 2024 12:39:13 GMT
Chinas post is effectively subsidised by the West . Trump pointed this out years ago and partially closed it afaik. You assume that Chinese workers are all happy . When did you visit China to see the sea of robots ? No that is a misunderstanding. If Royal Mail were a carbon copy of China Post then it would be 7p in this country and the whole thing would be financially neutral. It's a case of how you measure it. You could measure it as a service or a cost. They both perform the same service, i.e. honour deliveries sent to them, but it is not China's fault Royal Mail is so expensive. China does not go out of its way to exploit the West. It is not hostile in the way Trump paints them. A Chinese business is much like our own. They just look at the cost options and find the cheapest way. To give them credit, they are very clever at cutting cost to an absolute minimum. You don't even get a receipt, just the item in an envelope with a custom's declaration.
Here are the robots.
It’s not a misunderstanding, it’s true . Look at my previous post . China is a centralised society . Unions would never be allowed to exist . People load the parcels on to the robots and the robots tip them into the appropriate hole . Very interesting but would the UK need that system and why wouldn’t they use them if they needed them? |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 11, 2024 13:00:44 GMT
No that is a misunderstanding. If Royal Mail were a carbon copy of China Post then it would be 7p in this country and the whole thing would be financially neutral. It's a case of how you measure it. You could measure it as a service or a cost. They both perform the same service, i.e. honour deliveries sent to them, but it is not China's fault Royal Mail is so expensive. China does not go out of its way to exploit the West. It is not hostile in the way Trump paints them. A Chinese business is much like our own. They just look at the cost options and find the cheapest way. To give them credit, they are very clever at cutting cost to an absolute minimum. You don't even get a receipt, just the item in an envelope with a custom's declaration.
Here are the robots.
It’s not a misunderstanding, it’s true . Look at my previous post . China is a centralised society . Unions would never be allowed to exist . Well you are gradually coming to the crux of the matter. The fact is they do not have unions like we do. What they do have is for every large company, the law states they have a kind of government union type thing. What that means is the within their company, there is a unit that comes from central government to work with the company. We simply do not have anything like that in this culture, and I don't believe we ever have. I recall a BBC interview with Ren, the founder of Huawei, on this matter. Ren was like oh don't worry about that, they are here for educational reasons.
In other words, the management welcome the union and appreciates its presence. They don't disrupt but facilitate the success of the firm, hence why they are appreciated by the management. It really is one huge paradigm shift from our understanding of management and business. We would see that as state interference. We see it with the state imposing woke idiocy on those they touch. In China though, the government are like boffins. They are highly educated and very keen on technology, as is the trend across China. It's more Britain 1960s and the "white heat of technology" than what we are today. So the government boffins come in and make helpful suggestions on how to improve manufacturing processes, and they have strong links to the local technical universities. They are also the man of the golden handshake as they carry grants and subsidies with them for this and that. The goal though is all about increasing productivity, as each government region is competing for the highest local GDP growth. Investments in tech give very high payback returns so they adopt the tech, and that provides a market for start up tech firms from the universities. It's a harmonious, cohesive whole, like all on the same side in team China.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Oct 11, 2024 13:06:03 GMT
It’s not a misunderstanding, it’s true . Look at my previous post . China is a centralised society . Unions would never be allowed to exist . Well you are gradually coming to the crux of the matter. The fact is they do not have unions like we do. What they do have is for every large company, the law states they have a kind of government union type thing. What that means is the within their company, there is a unit that comes from central government to work with the company. We simply do not have anything like that in this culture, and I don't believe we ever have. I recall a BBC interview with Ren, the founder of Huawei, on this matter. Ren was like oh don't worry about that, they are here for educational reasons.
In other words, the management welcome the union and appreciates its presence. They don't disrupt but facilitate the success of the firm, hence why they are appreciated by the management. It really is one huge paradigm shift from our understanding of management and business. We would see that as state interference. We see it with the state imposing woke idiocy on those they touch. In China though, the government are like boffins. They are highly educated and very keen on technology, as is the trend across China. It's more Britain 1960s and the "white heat of technology" than what we are today. So the government boffins come in and make helpful suggestions on how to improve manufacturing processes, and they have strong links to the local technical universities. They are also the man of the golden handshake as they carry grants and subsidies with them for this and that. The goal though is all about increasing productivity, as each government region is competing for the highest local GDP growth. Investments in tech give very high payback returns so they adopt the tech, and that provides a market for start up tech firms from the universities. It's a harmonious, cohesive whole, like all on the same side in team China.
They don’t have unions because China is a centralise society with a government that would never allow free collective bargaining . China is ‘ harmonious’ because it would not allow anything other than government control . |
|
