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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:04:59 GMT
I don't agree with Sandy's argument about the feasibility of assimilation into an ethnie but do agree with his point that you can't be a member of two ethnies at the same time. Funny how you didn't challenge Sandy until prompted and still haven't directly. I don't believe I've claimed to be two different ethnicities, I'm talking about my national identity. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 19, 2024 10:18:37 GMT
He can challenge it if he wishes and we would disagree. I do not know about more ethnically English as I did not refer to that but if we are now looking at heritage as a guide, and I have not said it should arise unbidden, then I am effectively three quarters English. However that still does not affect any of what I have said. So despite being ethnically three quarters English you are Scottish but I can't be English despite being ethnically half English? Scooby Doo was less confused than you. In the first instance you said you were of Irish heritage, no ifs, no ands, no buts. Are you now saying you are not of Irish heritage or only partial Irish heritage. And what do you mean by ethnically half English. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 19, 2024 10:20:21 GMT
I don't agree with Sandy's argument about the feasibility of assimilation into an ethnie but do agree with his point that you can't be a member of two ethnies at the same time. Funny how you didn't challenge Sandy until prompted and still haven't directly. I don't believe I've claimed to be two different ethnicities, I'm talking about my national identity. Your National identity is British. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 19, 2024 10:25:24 GMT
Funny how you didn't challenge Sandy until prompted and still haven't directly. I don't believe I've claimed to be two different ethnicities, I'm talking about my national identity. Your National identity is British. That's correct. There's nothing else on offer at the present time. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:26:36 GMT
So despite being ethnically three quarters English you are Scottish but I can't be English despite being ethnically half English? Scooby Doo was less confused than you. In the first instance you said you were of Irish heritage, no ifs, no ands, no buts. Are you now saying you are not of Irish heritage or only partial Irish heritage. And what do you mean by ethnically half English. I am of Irish heritage due to my Irish father, just as your son is of Scottish heritage due to his Scottish father. The fact that your son apparently keeps this to himself doesn't change the fact. My mother is English so I am ethnically half English yes? Which would make me more ethnically English than you are Scottish. Yet you get to be Scottish but I can't be English? There is zero logical consistency to your argument it just seems to be driven by personal favouritism. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:27:21 GMT
Funny how you didn't challenge Sandy until prompted and still haven't directly. I don't believe I've claimed to be two different ethnicities, I'm talking about my national identity. Your National identity is British. I'm English first, British second, proud to be both. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:28:01 GMT
Your National identity is British. That's correct. There's nothing else on offer at the present time. Then Sandy can't be Scottish by your definition either right? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 19, 2024 10:30:03 GMT
Yes, that's true. There is no Scottish nationality available either.
He could well be an ethnic Scot though.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:35:00 GMT
Yes, that's true. There is no Scottish nationality available either. He could well be an ethnic Scot though. Apparently he's three quarters English but claims to be Scottish. He clearly fails your ethnicity criteria as does his son's Englishness. The fact that you haven't challenged him directly on any of this like you have with me suggests to me that even you don't really believe what you're saying and are just on a wind up. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 19, 2024 10:35:17 GMT
In the first instance you said you were of Irish heritage, no ifs, no ands, no buts. Are you now saying you are not of Irish heritage or only partial Irish heritage. And what do you mean by ethnically half English. I am of Irish heritage due to my Irish father, just as your son is of Scottish heritage due to his Scottish father. The fact that your son apparently keeps this to himself doesn't change the fact. My mother is English so I am ethnically half English yes? Which would make me more ethnically English than you are Scottish. Yet you get to be Scottish but I can't be English? There is zero logical consistency to your argument it just seems to be driven by personal favouritism. Now that is not what you said in the first instance, you said you were of Irish Heritage. However I am not claiming, and neither is my son, to be anything else other than ethnically Scots and ethnically English respectively So I ask a question again could you, and would you, resort to law if someone refused you employment because they said you were Irish. It is quite a pertinent point. I have not said you are not English I have asked where that leaves people with English heritage alone when you claim to be all that they are but also claim an Irish heritage, which you did. It seems to be a demand to be two things at once. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:36:30 GMT
I am of Irish heritage due to my Irish father, just as your son is of Scottish heritage due to his Scottish father. The fact that your son apparently keeps this to himself doesn't change the fact. My mother is English so I am ethnically half English yes? Which would make me more ethnically English than you are Scottish. Yet you get to be Scottish but I can't be English? There is zero logical consistency to your argument it just seems to be driven by personal favouritism. Now that is not what you said in the first instance, you said you were of Irish Heritage. However I am not claiming, and neither is my son, to be anything else other than ethnically Scots and ethnically English respectively So I ask a question again could you, and would you, resort to law if someone refused you employment because they said you were Irish. It is quite a pertinent point. I have not said you are not English I have asked where that leaves people with English heritage alone when you claim to be all that they are but also claim an Irish heritage, which you did. It seems to be a demand to be two things at once. Again we're back to ethnicity being entirely down to self identification. Is that what you are saying? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 19, 2024 10:37:24 GMT
Yes, that's true. There is no Scottish nationality available either. He could well be an ethnic Scot though. Apparently he's three quarters English but claims to be Scottish. He clearly fails your ethnicity criteria as does his son's Englishness. The fact that you haven't challenged him directly on any of this like you have with me suggests to me that even you don't really believe what you're saying and are just on a wind up. As long as he isn't claiming to be ethnically English I don't care what he claims. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:40:01 GMT
Apparently he's three quarters English but claims to be Scottish. He clearly fails your ethnicity criteria as does his son's Englishness. The fact that you haven't challenged him directly on any of this like you have with me suggests to me that even you don't really believe what you're saying and are just on a wind up. As long as he isn't claiming to be ethnically English I don't care what he claims. He's claiming his son is. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 19, 2024 10:40:03 GMT
Yes, that's true. There is no Scottish nationality available either. He could well be an ethnic Scot though. Apparently he's three quarters English but claims to be Scottish. He clearly fails your ethnicity criteria as does his son's Englishness. The fact that you haven't challenged him directly on any of this like you have with me suggests to me that even you don't really believe what you're saying and are just on a wind up. I may fail Dan's ethnic test but you also have to consider that I have repeatedly stated on what basis I consider ethnicity to be applied. Dan is broadly right in his assessment but it seems IMO to limit assimilation from integration. And remember integration is the removal of all barriers to assimilation. Claiming another heritage is a barrier to assimilation. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 19, 2024 10:43:32 GMT
Apparently he's three quarters English but claims to be Scottish. He clearly fails your ethnicity criteria as does his son's Englishness. The fact that you haven't challenged him directly on any of this like you have with me suggests to me that even you don't really believe what you're saying and are just on a wind up. I may fail Dan's ethnic test but you also have to consider that I have repeatedly stated on what basis I consider ethnicity to be applied. Dan is broadly right in his assessment but it seems IMO to limit assimilation from integration. And remember integration is the removal of all barriers to assimilation. Claiming another heritage is a barrier to assimilation. Refusing to accept someone as English due to their ethnic heritage is a much bigger barrier to integration I'd say. Preaching both integration and exclusion is a blatant contradiction. |
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