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Post by Steve on Dec 5, 2022 10:55:15 GMT
You're the perfect example of someone who tries to use the internet (and google) to learn about a subject. But you end up totally confused because you don't have any grounding in the subject. Or I could be married to an ex senior civil servant who's had to say no to ministers so knows the legal positionWolfie. But you'll carry on gobshiteing and lobbing your personal insults won't you.
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Post by Steve on Dec 5, 2022 11:02:24 GMT
You could go to the Civil Service's own website and ask them.. Civil servants are those who are employed by 'the Crown'.
The “Crown” fulfils the same role at the national level that the “State” fulfils on the international plane. The Executive (the government of the day) represents the Crown/State. The Crown and State endure; governments come and go. 'The Crown', for this purpose at least, does not include Her Majesty herself - so those employed by the Monarch are not civil servants.
linkWell if you're going to get pedantic have the last Commons report on the topic (ie before the Queen died) commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8885/' The Crown encompasses both the monarch and the government. It is vested in the Queen, but in general its functions are exercised by Ministers of the Crown accountable to the UK Parliament or the three devolved legislatures.'So back to the point at hand, the Civil Service has to obey the law and when the government of the day wants to do different to the law it's duty is to say no.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 5, 2022 13:49:56 GMT
You're the perfect example of someone who tries to use the internet (and google) to learn about a subject. But you end up totally confused because you don't have any grounding in the subject. Or I could be married to an ex senior civil servant who's had to say no to ministers so knows the legal positionWolfie. But you'll carry on gobshiteing and lobbing your personal insults won't you. What a load of bollocks. You didn't even know that that the CS was controlled by the govt - not the monarch. How thick is that. It's pointless telling you anything because you're completely ignorant. If what the govt wants to do is against British law the govt has the option of changing that law. If it's against international law the govt can get advice from the Attorney General. If the Attorney General says that it's against international law the govt can ignore that law. And if the Civil Servant refuses to obey orders he/she can be fired.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 5, 2022 14:55:58 GMT
You could go to the Civil Service's own website and ask them.. Civil servants are those who are employed by 'the Crown'.
The “Crown” fulfils the same role at the national level that the “State” fulfils on the international plane. The Executive (the government of the day) represents the Crown/State. The Crown and State endure; governments come and go. 'The Crown', for this purpose at least, does not include Her Majesty herself - so those employed by the Monarch are not civil servants.
linkWell if you're going to get pedantic have the last Commons report on the topic (ie before the Queen died) commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8885/' The Crown encompasses both the monarch and the government. It is vested in the Queen, but in general its functions are exercised by Ministers of the Crown accountable to the UK Parliament or the three devolved legislatures.'So back to the point at hand, the Civil Service has to obey the law and when the government of the day wants to do different to the law it's duty is to say no. That is a different point and falls under advice and is incumbent on any employee anywhere that if they are being asked to break the law they can say no. A civil servant can say what he likes but if he refuses a legal instruction from a Minister of the Crown he is at odds with his job description. Breaking the law is not the same as trying to change existing law.
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Post by Steve on Dec 5, 2022 22:34:11 GMT
Or I could be married to an ex senior civil servant who's had to say no to ministers so knows the legal positionWolfie. But you'll carry on gobshiteing and lobbing your personal insults won't you. What a load of bollocks. You didn't even know that that the CS was controlled by the govt - not the monarch. How thick is that. It's pointless telling you anything because you're completely ignorant. If what the govt wants to do is against British law the govt has the option of changing that law. If it's against international law the govt can get advice from the Attorney General. If the Attorney General says that it's against international law the govt can ignore that law. And if the Civil Servant refuses to obey orders he/she can be fired. I mourn your inability to actually read what I post. But hey ho you are such a slave to those voices in your head aren't you. Have you ever noticed your pathetic inability to debate, your constant immediate resort to ad hom attacks. Well there all signs of someone pushing BS for some dubious agenda.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 6, 2022 8:49:11 GMT
Of all the things that I posted as examples of people trying to destroy our country I would have thought that the least contentious was the Civil Service. The politicisation of the Civil Service has been obvious for years - since Blair in fact. And it was also obvious long before Blair when a lot of episodes of "Yes Minister" revolved around Sir Humphrey's clever manoeuvring to prevent Hacker doing anything.
Yet predictably you pick this to attack. No one's fucking interested. You just derail any thread by posting ill-thought out nonsense.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 6, 2022 9:07:41 GMT
Anybody got any theories as to why the governor of the BoE has decided to shaft the govt by selling their debt on the open market? THis seems to be an exceedingly aggressive act. Is he angling for a nice sinecure in the EU when he gets the boot - which will happen pretty soon I'd guess.
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2022 9:12:58 GMT
Of all the things that I posted as examples of people trying to destroy our country I would have thought that the least contentious was the Civil Service. The politicisation of the Civil Service has been obvious for years - since Blair in fact. And it was also obvious long before Blair when a lot of episodes of "Yes Minister" revolved around Sir Humphrey's clever manoeuvring to prevent Hacker doing anything. Yet predictably you pick this to attack. No one's fucking interested. You just derail any thread by posting ill-thought out nonsense. I have an intolerance to BS especially when it's used to malign people I know to be good Maybe you could give an example or two please of where you suppose the Civil Service have acted wrongly to oppose government.
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2022 9:17:03 GMT
Anybody got any theories as to why the governor of the BoE has decided to shaft the govt by selling their debt on the open market? THis seems to be an exceedingly aggressive act. Is he angling for a nice sinecure in the EU when he gets the boot - which will happen pretty soon I'd guess. As Reuters explain here it's all about partially unwinding QE www.reuters.com/markets/europe/why-is-bank-england-selling-government-bonds-2022-11-01/ No dark purpose just returning the BoE's holdings to a more normal basis.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 6, 2022 13:29:39 GMT
The point about unwinding QE (i.e. Quantitative Tightening) is that it doesn't need to be done now - when interest rates are high and we're in a debt spiral. The BoE is normally friendly to the govt - independent, but friendly. The debt costs the BoE nothing. It's an unusual thing to do.
And the latest example of Civil Service intransigence towards govt policy was their refusal to go along with the Rwanda policy. If they want to influence govt policy they should stand for parliament. Until they get elected it's nothing to do with them. And don't say that the Rwanda policy was hobbled by the ECHR - we can ignore them if we want. The point is the politicisation of the CS.
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2022 13:45:22 GMT
Except the Civil Service haven't actually refused to go along with the Rwanda policy have they. The government has decided not to use it until the current UK court case is resolved.
So that was simples, got another one?
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 6, 2022 14:03:31 GMT
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 6, 2022 14:09:30 GMT
Civil Servants put up 'Refugees welcome' stickers...
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Post by Fairsociety on Dec 6, 2022 14:23:46 GMT
They need to fire most of these loony leftie WFH Civil Servants, they have too much say, they are employed to serve the government and the people, their job description does not include interfering with government policy, the government run the country not a bunch of loony leftie woke snowflake civil servants employed and paid for by the tax payers, they are employed to implement the law not make the laws.
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Post by Steve on Dec 6, 2022 14:29:12 GMT
How desperate Red ^ and of course not actually supporting Steppenwolf's point. They haven't gone on strike have they and stickers? Don't make me laugh.
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