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Post by patman post on Aug 10, 2024 17:49:06 GMT
Yes. This is the UK, the UK was built on Christianity whether we like it or not. I was just looking at the value the CofE received off government. I'm not religious and I think it's good news the CofE receives this. you seem to be conflating the church of England , and the United Kingdom multi national state. You do actually realise the Church of England isnt the church of the uk dont you? no church should receive money from government , and no Church of England bishops should sit in a legislature. Of course , it's one trait the United Kingdom shares with that pillar of democracy Iran.....having clerics in its legislature. Exactly…
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Post by patman post on Aug 10, 2024 17:52:11 GMT
you seem to be conflating the church of England , and the United Kingdom multi national state. You do actually realise the Church of England isnt the church of the uk dont you? no church should receive money from government , and no Church of England bishops should sit in a legislature. Of course , it's one trait the United Kingdom shares with that pillar of democracy Iran.....having clerics in its legislature. A little different, in England the Bishops sit as part of the legislature, in Iran they oversee it as they do in Pakistan in a different way as well to ensure compliance to the Sharia for any laws. Not so different as to be excusable…
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Post by Orac on Aug 10, 2024 18:30:33 GMT
you seem to be conflating the church of England , and the United Kingdom multi national state. You do actually realise the Church of England isnt the church of the uk dont you? no church should receive money from government , and no Church of England bishops should sit in a legislature. Of course , it's one trait the United Kingdom shares with that pillar of democracy Iran.....having clerics in its legislature. Exactly… Odd that two countries with such similar systems should have such radically different outcomes. One becomes a rather tumbledown fly pit and the other invents the modern world and maps it. I wonder if your analysis is bit coarse
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 10, 2024 18:47:03 GMT
I suggested that any taxpayers' money given to protect mosques should be conditional on a quid pro quo - for example that the mosques are open to scrutiny (to check for extremist literature and hate preaching) and possibly also be required to allow women in. But this should probably be a requirement anyway. Churches are open to everyone. And it should also be a requirement for the "Sharia courts". Our own courts (except in very rare cases) are open to everyone. At the moment the only reason we know that the sharia courts are breaking the law (in trying criminal cases) is via undercover filming. Why are we (the British) so trusting - especially with people that openly admit they don't have our own interests at heart? Why just Mosques? Most Mosques allow women, but some may require that women are separated from men for worship; just the same as Synagogues - should they be defunded too, unless that treat women fully as equals? Surely the Catholic Church should be defunded for not allowing Women Priests and being systemically homophobic and paedophilic (most of which was, paradoxically, homosexual)? Both Sharia and Beth Din Courts should be made illegal. Beth Din Courts hold that the testimony of woman has only half the moral and legal value of the testimony of a man this is illegal under UK Law. All The Best
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 10, 2024 18:56:36 GMT
Your point? Christianity is as much a foreign religion as Islam, it just happened further back in history. You are aware that the UK is so NOT a Christian country that we had to be "converted" twice. My point stands: Religion is a matter of Personal Choice, not a matter of state funding and subsidies. All The Best If you wish to protect some invisible stance/point, good for you. By which you mean "the Truth". The truth is only invisible to those who don't want to see it. All The Best
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 10, 2024 19:02:35 GMT
The King must be very proud of what is happening within his kingdom. He's a keen admirer of Salafism/Wahhabism, which is found in hardline Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. He's a pampered privileged pillock. He is so far removed from reality that whatever he says is pretty much meaningless for ordinary people.
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Post by ProVeritas on Aug 10, 2024 19:04:40 GMT
I couldn't agree more. The state needs to stay out of religion and religion needs to stay the hell out of politics. The church was very much in control in our town during its history. In a way the church still is in control around here. This is why we have such a low crime rate. According to the grapevine the police themselves have a strong association with the church. The further our country departs from the faith, the further it will head towards its own destruction. No one in authority nationally tells the truth these days. If they were Christian, they would do it automatically. How many billions do we lose each year by someone lying to someone else. If you become faithless, you start to imagine lying can be justified. Another thing you start to think is life is no longer sacred and you become OK with killing people, e.g. 80% of the country agreed to sanctions agaisnt Russia, but having agreed thus far, they went on to be OK about using their taxes to kill the Russians. Christians would never allow our taxes to be used to kill people. The people will now sacrifice the health of their elderly relatives struggling to heat their homes in order to kill them as well. You can't get one over on god, even if you think you can. Anyone who supports this is destined for hell. We all hold responsibility. Christian Priests lie every single day - they tell you their god is both real and good, despite there being no evidence to support that at all, and ample evidence to prove the opposite. Christian ca not stop their taxes being used to kill people; they have absolutely no control over how their taxes are spent once collected. Ironic that a religion that is arguably responsible for more deaths than any other religion in human history should suddenly grow a conscience. Then we have this: Not looking good for hypocritical god-botherers of christianity, is it? All The Best
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Post by wassock on Aug 10, 2024 19:16:17 GMT
If you wish to protect some invisible stance/point, good for you. By which you mean "the Truth". The truth is only invisible to those who don't want to see it. All The Best No. Beliefs are just opinions. Some/many create an invisible position, stand point. They then feel others need to argue against their stand point. I don't bother with those petty games.
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Post by wassock on Aug 10, 2024 19:19:04 GMT
The King must be very proud of what is happening within his kingdom. He's a keen admirer of Salafism/Wahhabism, which is found in hardline Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia. He's a pampered privileged pillock. He is so far removed from reality that whatever he says is pretty much meaningless for ordinary people. Unfortunately, the British Empire started to disintegrate when parliament took over from the Monarchy. And that is a sad fact.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 10, 2024 19:25:53 GMT
A little different, in England the Bishops sit as part of the legislature, in Iran they oversee it as they do in Pakistan in a different way as well to ensure compliance to the Sharia for any laws. Not so different as to be excusable… In both Iran and Pakistan it was created as part of the Constitution, in the UK it has arisen through historic changes in the Constitution and conflict and renewal. The thing is though with all its flaws it works, finding something else that works as well has been a quest these past 60 years and patronage has replaced many but even now it works. It has not been replaced because people cannot agree on what should replace it.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Aug 10, 2024 19:59:22 GMT
The church was very much in control in our town during its history. In a way the church still is in control around here. This is why we have such a low crime rate. According to the grapevine the police themselves have a strong association with the church. The further our country departs from the faith, the further it will head towards its own destruction. No one in authority nationally tells the truth these days. If they were Christian, they would do it automatically. How many billions do we lose each year by someone lying to someone else. If you become faithless, you start to imagine lying can be justified. Another thing you start to think is life is no longer sacred and you become OK with killing people, e.g. 80% of the country agreed to sanctions agaisnt Russia, but having agreed thus far, they went on to be OK about using their taxes to kill the Russians. Christians would never allow our taxes to be used to kill people. The people will now sacrifice the health of their elderly relatives struggling to heat their homes in order to kill them as well. You can't get one over on god, even if you think you can. Anyone who supports this is destined for hell. We all hold responsibility. With respect, Baron, you're conflating religion with morality, overlooking the fact that morality can and does exist outside religion. You are also making sweeping assumptions about one religion. It is 100% false to assert that Christians would never allow taxes to be used to kill people. The Crusades were initiated by the church and supported by the church. How do you think they were funded? Crusade expeditions created huge demand for weapons, food and other supplies, levies for which contributed to the development of centralised financial administrations and the growth of papal and royal taxation. In fact, one of the outcomes of the crusades was the legacy of taxation. Your moral values are most likely from the Christian faith anyway. I mean I don't know you at all, but if you are a British citizen then you would have been brought up that way, and most of our laws are based on it as well. Before Christianity it was a very brutal world and you would not have liked it one bit. I know what the PC crap teaches so I don't need it repeating again. I'm always confronted with the crusades in order to justify death. The evil system has all the answers, just that they are often wrong or at the least highly misleading. A modern example of an atheist system was the soviet union. Not very pleasant, was it? We take it for granted that people we meet in Britain have Christian values. This is why we refrain from mixing with those from primitive cultures which do not. They are dangerous, as we are finding out to our horror.
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Post by thomas on Aug 10, 2024 21:07:34 GMT
not hugely different. No so called civilised 21 st century society should have clerics in a legislature for any reason in my opinion. I do not disagree but they have been trying to reform the Lords effectively for over 60 years and counting, even Powell and Foot combined forces to defeat Wilson's bill. The eternal problem is it is not democratic it is unelected, it is seats for the old boys but the problem for everyone is that in general terms it works. Finding an alternative that will work as well not filled with sycophants and acolytes has been considered and often rejected. doesn't matter sandy. No cleric should sit in a modern day legislature. If scotland had remained independent , I would be arguing against clerics sitting in our unicarmel parliament as part of the three estates. if you are worried about the creeping power of islam , surely the way to hold it back is arguing for a secular society , and not one where clerics sit in a legislature as part of a body no one can apparently reform?
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 10, 2024 21:10:30 GMT
Should people of faith not be represented in the democratic system? All should be represented regardless of faith or lack of faith. Politicians should not be influenced by religion when determining public policy. If you are not going to be influenced by the religion you follow what is the point of religion?
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Post by thomas on Aug 10, 2024 21:12:38 GMT
With respect, Baron, you're conflating religion with morality, overlooking the fact that morality can and does exist outside religion. You are also making sweeping assumptions about one religion. It is 100% false to assert that Christians would never allow taxes to be used to kill people. The Crusades were initiated by the church and supported by the church. How do you think they were funded? Crusade expeditions created huge demand for weapons, food and other supplies, levies for which contributed to the development of centralised financial administrations and the growth of papal and royal taxation. In fact, one of the outcomes of the crusades was the legacy of taxation. Your moral values are most likely from the Christian faith anyway. rubbish .Christiianty didnt invent morality. in fact what we know of christianity is it often borrowed rather than innovate new views and morals . my more values are from humanity , and trial and error over thousands of years . good and bad. right and wrong didnt begin in the fifth century ad with the advent of Christianity to scotland .
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 10, 2024 21:21:32 GMT
He's a pampered privileged pillock. He is so far removed from reality that whatever he says is pretty much meaningless for ordinary people. Unfortunately, the British Empire started to disintegrate when parliament took over from the Monarchy. And that is a sad fact. I disagree. The Empire started to disintegrate when the natives started pissing in our tea.
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