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Post by Toreador on Dec 2, 2022 16:23:27 GMT
Well its an Omen of things to come As I stated in another post, its begining to feel like ( not Christmas ), but the run-up to the 1997 General Election when the NHS was in crisis, the Tories stumbled from one disaster to another, and the polls consistently gave Labour a massive lead. There is absolutelly nothing on the horizon which could boost the Tories, just a crumbling NHS, recession, rising fuel bills, strikes and gloom. In 1997 we had an idiot PM. We probaly hve one now and if Starmer wins we'll have another one. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 2, 2022 16:26:00 GMT
What really surprises me, given what we know, some people still voted Tory, what kind of people are they? I suspect a significant chunk of 'Tory' voters (a minority - but significant nonetheless) are not Tories so much as they are Anti-Labour. Correct but it's true of Labour voters; sadly none are proving they're worthy. |
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Post by sword on Dec 2, 2022 16:39:27 GMT
What really surprises me, given what we know, some people still voted Tory, what kind of people are they? Stupid or sick and selfish. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 3, 2022 7:38:29 GMT
Well its an Omen of things to come As I stated in another post, its begining to feel like ( not Christmas ), but the run-up to the 1997 General Election when the NHS was in crisis, the Tories stumbled from one disaster to another, and the polls consistently gave Labour a massive lead. There is absolutelly nothing on the horizon which could boost the Tories, just a crumbling NHS, recession, rising fuel bills, strikes and gloom. In 1997 we had an idiot PM. We probaly hve one now and if Starmer wins we'll have another one. They are all cut from the same cloth, believe that same things and have the same policies.. It's hardly surprising the the Tory vote stayed at home when the Tories are not enacting conservative policies - just the same old left-wing liberal ones we have seen for the 2 decades. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 9:42:19 GMT
Rishy Sunak is a traditional Conservative, as against a populist Conservative such as Boris Johnson, which is why many in the Tory Party are jumping ship, desserting and getting out whilst they can.
To a degree I believe pacifico ( above post ) is correct, Cameron attempted to be all things to all people, he claimed to be a "One Nation" Conservative, yet introduced such things as the Bedroom Tax, and disproportionaly hit low income people.
The relatively new MPs in the Red Wall seats and others are now totaly DOOMED, and many others are at great risk, including Boris Johnson.
Its a kind of Catch22 situation for the Tory Party, the "traditional" Tories want REAL Conservative policies, but the new working class Tories / the Populists, know that without populist rhetoric and borrowed money for Redcar and Grimsby, they will be gone in 2024.
Rishi is a business man, he looks like a business man, he will run the country and operate like a business, a man in a dark suit who talks business - BORING to populists.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 3, 2022 11:37:42 GMT
Rishy Sunak is a traditional Conservative, as against a populist Conservative such as Boris Johnson, which is why many in the Tory Party are jumping ship, desserting and getting out whilst they can. There is nothing Conservative about Sunak - highest tax burden since WW2, massive increases in Public spending, abandoned the promise he made to allow more grammar Schools, refuses to exploit the UK's energy assets, follows an anti-growth agenda etc etc. If he is a conservative I'm Miss Marple. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Dec 3, 2022 12:02:06 GMT
Rishy Sunak is a traditional Conservative, as against a populist Conservative such as Boris Johnson, which is why many in the Tory Party are jumping ship, desserting and getting out whilst they can. There is nothing Conservative about Sunak - highest tax burden since WW2, massive increases in Public spending, abandoned the promise he made to allow more grammar Schools, refuses to exploit the UK's energy assets, follows an anti-growth agenda etc etc. If he is a conservative I'm Miss Marple. While thatcher reduced the income tax rate like this govenment did she increased the tax burden on indirect tax like vat etc. making the poor , poorer and the rich richer , thats Thatcherite govenment |
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Post by dappy on Dec 3, 2022 13:05:43 GMT
This feels very much like what Labour went through a few years ago. Rejection of all recent Governments from your party, rejection of pragmatism, only those who agree with the extreme wing of your party can be called “true xxxs”.
Yet in the Conservative case, we had a “true” dogmatic Libertarian government lead by Liz Truss. It was an absolute disaster imploding in a few weeks after costing the country and its people billions.
Labour against the odds recovered from its bout of civil war and Puritanism. I wonder if the Tories can or whether split is inevitable and the only argument is which faction gets the brand.
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Post by borchester on Dec 3, 2022 13:15:43 GMT
I suspect a significant chunk of 'Tory' voters (a minority - but significant nonetheless) are not Tories so much as they are Anti-Labour. Correct but it's true of Labour voters; sadly none are proving they're worthy. True, but I doubt that many of us care overmuch.
As long as a politician is reasonably competent, keeps taxes low and the UK out of the EU, I am not that bothered
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Post by Steve on Dec 3, 2022 13:20:24 GMT
What really surprises me, given what we know, some people still voted Tory, what kind of people are they? People that have actually looked and thought about the Labour policies? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 3, 2022 13:39:10 GMT
Midterm byelection, the result is hardly a surprise. In fact, the only surprise would have been Labour not winning. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Dec 3, 2022 13:47:40 GMT
I agree that it would have been a surprise if Labour hadn't have won, I wouldn't have expected anything else.
What we are looking at here was whether the installation of Sunak following the drubbings that the Tories had in Amersham & Chesham and Honiton & Tiverton under Johnson had made any difference. Looks like the answer was little.
As Toreador said, there may be some stay at home Tory voters here, so the question would be can Sunak motivate them.
To say that it is just mid term blues is very disingenuous.
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Post by Steve on Dec 3, 2022 13:49:09 GMT
Midterm byelection, the result is hardly a surprise. In fact, the only surprise would have been Labour not winning. It's not the result as such, it's the swing (13.6%) which IIRC is higher than normal for mid term by elections but points more towards hung parliament than a Labour win |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2022 13:59:02 GMT
None of the political parties have released or published manifesto's yet for the 2024 General Election, however we do have policy announcements, and we have an idea what the Labour Party will do if it gets into government.
My favourite policy announcements are GREAT BRITISH ENERGY - an energy company which will compete alongside the other energy companies, but will be publicly owned, no shareholders, no fat profits going abroad, and any profits re-invested into clean energy.
RENATIONALISATION or Part NATIONALISATION of Railways - ending the years of farce ant utter chaos here up North, where many people simply refuse to use the railways because they are just so unreliable. Buying a railway ticket on Transpenine or Northern Rail is like putting a penny into a one armed bandit, the train MIGHT turn up, or it MIGHT NOT, its a game of chance.
Put it this way ............... A Labour government cannot be any worse than the last few years
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 3, 2022 14:20:35 GMT
Midterm byelection, the result is hardly a surprise. In fact, the only surprise would have been Labour not winning. It's not the result as such, it's the swing (13.6%) which IIRC is higher than normal for mid term by elections but points more towards hung parliament than a Labour win A Labour win with a working majority at the next election wouldn't surprise me. The vast majority of people I come into contact with are Tory voters. Some of them like me are party members. Yet many of them say they have had it with the conservative party and the reason has nothing to do with net-zero or the economy or the cost of living crisis. Every time this issue comes up in conversation long standing Tory voters say the same thing, they are absolutely sick of mass illegal immigration from the EU. This is a real issue, it's an issue people are angry about and it's an issue the government don't seem to understand. It is also ' the' issue that will ensure the Tories lose the next election. |
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