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Post by thomas on Aug 5, 2024 8:00:23 GMT
re read my posts in the thread , and when you understand what has been written , come back to me and lets try debate , instead of inventions of things I never said. Why not just clarify, are you blaming Labour for this or not? have a read what I wrote earlier up the thread. I can copy and paste it for you , I cant understand it for you. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 5, 2024 8:02:39 GMT
re read my posts in the thread , and when you understand what has been written , come back to me and lets try debate , instead of inventions of things I never said. Why not just clarify, are you blaming Labour for this or not? by the way , on the wider topic of mass uncontrolled immigration , I do blame labour as I said yesterday , for opening the floodgates in the early 2000 s under Blair , which the tories continued from 2010. These riots are happening under labours watch though here and now. its going to be interesting to see what no mandate starmer does , but so far , ive not been impressed . |
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Post by Orac on Aug 5, 2024 8:11:03 GMT
The long-term causes are a giant bomb in society that all parties have contributed to building. However, I think Starmer and Cooper lit the fuse here by going full-on totalising race ideologue in such a brazen and demonstrable way.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 5, 2024 8:23:31 GMT
"The Conservative government left the UK wide open to the far-right violence erupting across parts of the country by ignoring red flags and stoking fires with a culture war agenda, a senior adviser on extremism to Tory prime ministers has said. Repeated and urgent counsel that far-right extremists were exploiting gaps in the law to foment violence on social media had been ignored while top-rank politicians in a series of administrations sought to gain advantage by waging culture wars, Khan said, in a damning intervention. “The writing was clearly on the wall for some time,” Khan said. “All my reports have shown, in a nutshell that, firstly, these extremist and cohesion threats are worsening; secondly, that our country is woefully unprepared. We’ve got a gap in our legislation which is allowing these extremists to operate with impunity. “Previous governments have astonishingly failed to address these trends, and they’ve taken instead, in my view, approaches that have actually been counterproductive and actually just defy any logical rationale. “They scrapped the counter-extremism strategy [in 2021], including all the resources and funding for local areas across the country who are struggling with extremist activity and extremist actors. And the government, at that time, did not replace it with anything. They left local authorities struggling to deal with consistent extremist challenges in their area." www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/conservatives-left-uk-wide-open-to-far-right-violence-says-former-adviser |
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
Posts: 415
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Post by ginnyg2 on Aug 5, 2024 8:49:49 GMT
"The Conservative government left the UK wide open to the far-right violence erupting across parts of the country by ignoring red flags and stoking fires with a culture war agenda, a senior adviser on extremism to Tory prime ministers has said. Repeated and urgent counsel that far-right extremists were exploiting gaps in the law to foment violence on social media had been ignored while top-rank politicians in a series of administrations sought to gain advantage by waging culture wars, Khan said, in a damning intervention. “The writing was clearly on the wall for some time,” Khan said. “All my reports have shown, in a nutshell that, firstly, these extremist and cohesion threats are worsening; secondly, that our country is woefully unprepared. We’ve got a gap in our legislation which is allowing these extremists to operate with impunity. “Previous governments have astonishingly failed to address these trends, and they’ve taken instead, in my view, approaches that have actually been counterproductive and actually just defy any logical rationale. “They scrapped the counter-extremism strategy [in 2021], including all the resources and funding for local areas across the country who are struggling with extremist activity and extremist actors. And the government, at that time, did not replace it with anything. They left local authorities struggling to deal with consistent extremist challenges in their area." www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/conservatives-left-uk-wide-open-to-far-right-violence-says-former-adviserHow do you know these people are "far right" ? Have you spoken to any of them? Indeed has anyone spoken to any of them? And that includes the media. Watching people being interviewed on TV it's always the ones whose communities are being affected - never the actual protesters/rioters. And the Government mentality is the same as that of the Post Office management - don't consider other possibilities - just take the easy option and blame somebody. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 5, 2024 9:00:16 GMT
I keep addressing the point till I am blue in teh face and then the determination to go off tangentially and ignore what I said raises its head again. I will repeat currently there is no know reason why the young man should have stabbed young girls, we can guess but we do not know. They presented no known danger to him, unless he was immersed in critical race theory. Is there a perception that the asylum seekers represent an increased threat to local people. I would say there is and the reasons are fairly sound as to why people perceive that as one of the problems it is completely unknown who they are, where they are from, what crimes they have committed and what cultural proclivities come with them. So in the first instance we can understand the antipathy to having an asylum centre near one. Does that give the right for people to burn buildings to the ground of course it does not but we also have to add into the mix the attitude of the government which is perceived to be the arrivals will go on uncontested in potentially greater numbers and you will all have to muck in and help. Some people are saying no that is not the case and with them comes the people who enjoy a fight. I remember the poll tax riots where police cars were destroyed and the left were cock-a-hoop at Thatcher having to back track on the policy. The lesson was that rioting works. Men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime. If someone were to set fire to a building with you in that would have to be taken into consideration by your logic. Keep going idiocy will win through. Men are a specific risk but men exist in abundance in society, if men were forcing themselves into women's spaces then that represents an increased threat to women. That is stating the bleeding obvious. So if men exist but men with unknown criminality, unknown proclivities, from unknown cultures but suspected to be from areas wherein women are second class and religious differences create different values towards others are forcing themselves upon us, and they are, then that is an increased risk to us all.That is also stating the bleeding obvious. I repeat the left were cock-a-hoop at how Thatcher had to change her mind over the poll tax to counter the riots. For the left the riots worked and were in their eyes justified as people perceived unfairness. How hypocritical you all are. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 5, 2024 9:02:37 GMT
You're not addressing the point. You can discuss all the things you've listed without setting fire to buildings with men, women and children in. You have defended such actions with the argument it makes kids safer as they don't know the criminal potential of those they attack. I'm pointing out that that could be applied to anyone including you as you belong to a disproportionately violent demographic. I keep addressing the point till I am blue in teh face and then the determination to go off tangentially and ignore what I said raises its head again. I will repeat currently there is no know reason why the young man should have stabbed young girls, we can guess but we do not know. They presented no known danger to him, unless he was immersed in critical race theory. Is there a perception that the asylum seekers represent an increased threat to local people. I would say there is and the reasons are fairly sound as to why people perceive that as one of the problems it is completely unknown who they are, where they are from, what crimes they have committed and what cultural proclivities come with them. So in the first instance we can understand the antipathy to having an asylum centre near one. Does that give the right for people to burn buildings to the ground of course it does not but we also have to add into the mix the attitude of the government which is perceived to be the arrivals will go on uncontested in potentially greater numbers and you will all have to muck in and help. Some people are saying no that is not the case and with them comes the people who enjoy a fight. I remember the poll tax riots where police cars were destroyed and the left were cock-a-hoop at Thatcher having to back track on the policy. The lesson was that rioting works. The lesson of the last few years is that our democracy works by acquiescing to people who riot and, if necessary, doing so at the expense of the law abiding. It's not surprising that people have taken this lesson onboard. The groups that riot get the goodies transferred to them from the silent |
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Post by Orac on Aug 5, 2024 9:12:18 GMT
This may not all happen at once, but i think there is some likelihood we are in the foothills of something quite large and unpleasant.
If it does get large and very out of control I expect the labour party to end up (at least passively) endorsing and supporting marauding attacks on white people.
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 5, 2024 9:22:47 GMT
"The Conservative government left the UK wide open to the far-right violence erupting across parts of the country by ignoring red flags and stoking fires with a culture war agenda, a senior adviser on extremism to Tory prime ministers has said. Repeated and urgent counsel that far-right extremists were exploiting gaps in the law to foment violence on social media had been ignored while top-rank politicians in a series of administrations sought to gain advantage by waging culture wars, Khan said, in a damning intervention. “The writing was clearly on the wall for some time,” Khan said. “All my reports have shown, in a nutshell that, firstly, these extremist and cohesion threats are worsening; secondly, that our country is woefully unprepared. We’ve got a gap in our legislation which is allowing these extremists to operate with impunity. “Previous governments have astonishingly failed to address these trends, and they’ve taken instead, in my view, approaches that have actually been counterproductive and actually just defy any logical rationale. “They scrapped the counter-extremism strategy [in 2021], including all the resources and funding for local areas across the country who are struggling with extremist activity and extremist actors. And the government, at that time, did not replace it with anything. They left local authorities struggling to deal with consistent extremist challenges in their area." www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/04/conservatives-left-uk-wide-open-to-far-right-violence-says-former-adviserHow do you know these people are "far right" ? Have you spoken to any of them? Indeed has anyone spoken to any of them? And that includes the media. Watching people being interviewed on TV it's always the ones whose communities are being affected - never the actual protesters/rioters. And the Government mentality is the same as that of the Post Office management - don't consider other possibilities - just take the easy option and blame somebody. I thought that the swastika tattoos, Nazi salutes, racist graffiti and attacking mosques was a bit of a giveaway. People committing acts of criminal violence don't tend to stop for interviews either, can't think why. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 5, 2024 9:27:17 GMT
Men are responsible for the vast majority of violent crime. If someone were to set fire to a building with you in that would have to be taken into consideration by your logic. Keep going idiocy will win through. Men are a specific risk but men exist in abundance in society, if men were forcing themselves into women's spaces then that represents an increased threat to women. That is stating the bleeding obvious. So if men exist but men with unknown criminality, unknown proclivities, from unknown cultures but suspected to be from areas wherein women are second class and religious differences create different values towards others are forcing themselves upon us, and they are, then that is an increased risk to us all.That is also stating the bleeding obvious. I repeat the left were cock-a-hoop at how Thatcher had to change her mind over the poll tax to counter the riots. For the left the riots worked and were in their eyes justified as people perceived unfairness. How hypocritical you all are. I've never expressed being "cock-a-hoop" about the poll tax riots so please drop the strawnan. Anyone meeting you for the first time knows nothing about you and plenty of men have committed violent crimes without their family or friends knowing. You do belong to a disproportionately violent demographic but it seems you don't like being judged on that. Perhaps reflect on that? |
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Post by Orac on Aug 5, 2024 9:30:55 GMT
Happyhornet is happy enough pretending this discussion is all about his individual position, when the reality is nobody really cares what his individual position is and that isn't what is being discussed
It's a continuous strawman
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 5, 2024 9:36:08 GMT
Happyhornet is happy enough pretending this discussion is all about his individual position, when the reality is nobody really cares what his individual position is and that isn't what is being discussed It's a continuous strawman If you don't want it to be about me then maybe don't submit posts which are all about me? |
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Post by piglet on Aug 5, 2024 9:37:06 GMT
Starmer cant bat against his own side, its about how long hes got. Farage will make mincemeat of him in parliament, oh, they are on holiday.
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
Posts: 415
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Post by ginnyg2 on Aug 5, 2024 9:42:50 GMT
How do you know these people are "far right" ? Have you spoken to any of them? Indeed has anyone spoken to any of them? And that includes the media. Watching people being interviewed on TV it's always the ones whose communities are being affected - never the actual protesters/rioters. And the Government mentality is the same as that of the Post Office management - don't consider other possibilities - just take the easy option and blame somebody. I thought that the swastika tattoos, Nazi salutes, racist graffiti and attacking mosques was a bit of a giveaway. People committing acts of criminal violence don't tend to stop for interviews either, can't think why. Maybe because they know how the media works - editing interviews and twisting everything. |
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Post by happyhornet3 on Aug 5, 2024 9:45:15 GMT
As to the whole "legitimate concerns" argument I heard similar sentiments from people on the left following 7/7 only instead of legitimate concerns about immigration it was legitimate concerns about our government's foreign policy. I give no credibility to the "look what you made do" argument then or now.
You don't stop violent extremists of any sort by having a cosy chat about their feelings, that's certainly not how we won WW2.
Of course the law abiding majority should be listened to, they have been, we had an election 4 weeks ago and Labour won. If you don't like it tough, that's democracy for you, people don't always vote the way you want.
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