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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 15:57:08 GMT
But in the cases you refer to, nobody did ask employees to remove a cross because it "might offend" muslims, Hindus or any other religion.
I agree with your principle of respecting all faiths and none but don't seem to have found an example of your faith not being respected.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 16:12:18 GMT
Wait till we get to Easter, what happened to Harvest thanks giving?
Easter will be banished and rebranded something daft to take away its religious connotations, it will be a bank holiday for the Easter bunnies who come out on those dates.
We wouldn't want to offend other religions now would we, having to explain to children what Good Friday was all about, or Easter Monday.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 30, 2022 16:21:35 GMT
In the twenty years prior to 2021, the White British population declined by an average 55,000 each year. The 'Other' population, on the other hand, grew by an average of 435,000 per year over the period.
If the same annual changes are experienced going forward, how many years will it be before the Other population overtakes the White British?
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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 16:31:44 GMT
Wait till we get to Easter, what happened to Harvest thanks giving? Easter will be banished and rebranded something daft to take away its religious connotations, it will be a bank holiday for the Easter bunnies who come out on those dates. We wouldn't want to offend other religions now would we, having to explain to children what Good Friday was all about, or Easter Monday. We seem to have moved on rather. I presume you now accept that the two cases you referred to were not cases where your religion was disrespected and you havent got any where it was. Good we are making progress. If and when Easter is rebranded, I will agree with you that is a bit dumb. But that hasn't happened just like Christmas is still Christmas . What happened to Harvest thanksgiving? Don't know if anything did to be honest. Presumably churches are free to put on services if they wish and churchgoers free to attend but I imagine most people in the country dont see it as particularly relevant to their lives. Are you saying someone is preventing you celebrating Harvest Thanksgiving if you wish?? |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 16:41:24 GMT
Wait till we get to Easter, what happened to Harvest thanks giving? Easter will be banished and rebranded something daft to take away its religious connotations, it will be a bank holiday for the Easter bunnies who come out on those dates. We wouldn't want to offend other religions now would we, having to explain to children what Good Friday was all about, or Easter Monday. We seem to have moved on rather. I presume you now accept that the two cases you referred to were not cases where your religion was disrespected and you havent got any where it was. Good we are making progress. If and when Easter is rebranded, I will agree with you that is a bit dumb. But that hasn't happened just like Christmas is still Christmas . What happened to Harvest thanksgiving? Don't know if anything did to be honest. Presumably churches are free to put on services if they wish and churchgoers free to attend but I imagine most people in the country dont see it as particularly relevant to their lives. Are you saying someone is preventing you celebrating Harvest Thanksgiving if you wish?? I was talking about schools, most 'Christian' oriented themes have slowly been fazed out of UK schools, they are more interested in transgender, or having two mummies or two daddies, or daddy use to be mummy or mummy use to be daddy, they are filling kids heads with stuff they don't need.
Why is it any more bizarre to teach them about our religion of a baby who was born at Christmas named Jesus who was the son of God.
Why would kids think that was any more bizarre than your mother becoming your father, or your father becoming your mother?
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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 16:58:48 GMT
So we seem to have given up on work banning wearing of a cross because it might offend muslims - as that didn't happen - and we have given up on the rebranding of Easter - as that didn't happen - and we have given up on the cancellation of Harvest thanksgiving - as that didn't happen and now we are trying schools. Keep throwing enough darts and one might eventually land.....
You say you are asking schools to teach about "our" religion but you are not - you are asking them to teach about "your religion". And if I interpret you rightly you are asking them to teach that your religion is factual and that other religions or absence of any religion are wrong. Which rather fails your respecting other beliefs test.
If you are saying that schools do not teach about the Christian religion - then you are just wrong. But they will also teach about beliefs of other religions too and present all as "some people believe" rather than as fact.
You have lost me with the relevance of the fact that some families do not consist of one mother and one father to religion in schools. But whatever your point was, I suspect it is another of those "that didn't happen" moments.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 17:14:28 GMT
It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship.
However I have no idea if any of the Muslim schools outside of the UK teach about any other religion other than their own, which I highly suspect the word 'Christian' never passes their lips.
Is it right that none Christian children taught in UK schools should not learn about other religions and faiths other than their own.
If so it's called segregation, it's called brainwashing, every child who is taught in the UK should be taught about ALL religions and faiths, if we don't it will end in tears, a mutual respect of every religion in the UK must be part of the requirements to become a UK citizen, they must respect our religion and faiths.
STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.
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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 17:29:46 GMT
You kind of let yourself down with your first paragraph - "each school should be taught about their own religion" - what is this "own religion" - I thought we agreed and indeed you go on to say that all religions (and I presume none) should be equally respected.
You then went on to speculate that children in muslim schools may not be taught about Christianity and then expressed your outrage that they are not. If that were to happen I would agree with your view that that is bad practise just I would argue that not teaching kids in CoE schools about islam is bad practise. It feels unlikely that that is the case in all but a handful of Islamic schools for two reasons 1) The vast majority of islamic schools are subject to the Ofsted inspection regime and such a practise would be heavily criticised and 2) Jesus is considered a very important figure in Islam (think might be third most important prophet but may have got that wrong) and hence it would be very odd indeed to ban mention of him.
I am afraid yet again you have gone down a path of being outraged by something that doesn't happen except in your imagination (at least in the vast vast majority of cases),.
Is it time to stop digging?
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 17:36:02 GMT
You kind of let yourself down with your first paragraph - "each school should be taught about their own religion" - what is this "own religion" - I thought we agreed and indeed you go on to say that all religions (and I presume none) should be equally respected. You then went on to speculate that children in muslim schools may not be taught about Christianity and then expressed your outrage that they are not. If that were to happen I would agree with your view that that is bad practise just I would argue that not teaching kids in CoE schools about islam is bad practise. It feels unlikely that that is the case in all but a handful of Islamic schools for two reasons 1) The vast majority of islamic schools are subject to the Ofsted inspection regime and such a practise would be heavily criticised and 2) Jesus is considered a very important figure in Islam (think might be third most important prophet but may have got that wrong) and hence it would be very odd indeed to ban mention of him. I am afraid yet again you have gone down a path of being outraged by something that doesn't happen except in your imagination (at least in the vast vast majority of cases),. Is it time to stop digging? Read it carefully what I 'actually' posted.
"It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship".
Why would a country not make their own language and religion first (except the UK of course)?
It is only in the UK that we disown our own religion to appease others, if a UK school DARE to teach only about the Christian faith, beliefs, take it from me we'd be torn apart, any other country can do as they please.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 30, 2022 17:45:40 GMT
It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship. However I have no idea if any of the Muslim schools outside of the UK teach about any other religion other than their own, which I highly suspect the word 'Christian' never passes their lips. Is it right that none Christian children taught in UK schools should not learn about other religions and faiths other than their own. If so it's called segregation, it's called brainwashing, every child who is taught in the UK should be taught about ALL religions and faiths, if we don't it will end in tears, a mutual respect of every religion in the UK must be part of the requirements to become a UK citizen, they must respect our religion and faiths. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED. I disagree. We should teach by all means about all faiths and the right of each individual to worship as he/she sees fit but we do not have to teach respect for each faith as faiths in general are just what you believe and a Chrisian has as much chance of being right as a Druid. Numbers does not improve the chance of being right in this respect. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 17:51:22 GMT
It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship. However I have no idea if any of the Muslim schools outside of the UK teach about any other religion other than their own, which I highly suspect the word 'Christian' never passes their lips. Is it right that none Christian children taught in UK schools should not learn about other religions and faiths other than their own. If so it's called segregation, it's called brainwashing, every child who is taught in the UK should be taught about ALL religions and faiths, if we don't it will end in tears, a mutual respect of every religion in the UK must be part of the requirements to become a UK citizen, they must respect our religion and faiths. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED. I disagree. We should teach by all means about all faiths and the right of each individual to worship as he/she sees fit but we do not have to teach respect for each faith as faiths in general are just what you believe and a Chrisian has as much chance of being right as a Druid. Numbers does not improve the chance of being right in this respect. I never mentioned 'right'.
ALL religions are based on myth if you like, NO religion is based on fact, be it Christian, Buddhism, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, every religion is based on a 'principal of belief', to it's own country, no one religion is any more superior than another, and to bring children up on that belief is what causes hostility, segregation and division, and part of UK citizenship should be to honour ALL of those religions as part of your citizenship, we do not want religious hostilities of any kind festering in the UK.
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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 18:39:22 GMT
You kind of let yourself down with your first paragraph - "each school should be taught about their own religion" - what is this "own religion" - I thought we agreed and indeed you go on to say that all religions (and I presume none) should be equally respected. You then went on to speculate that children in muslim schools may not be taught about Christianity and then expressed your outrage that they are not. If that were to happen I would agree with your view that that is bad practise just I would argue that not teaching kids in CoE schools about islam is bad practise. It feels unlikely that that is the case in all but a handful of Islamic schools for two reasons 1) The vast majority of islamic schools are subject to the Ofsted inspection regime and such a practise would be heavily criticised and 2) Jesus is considered a very important figure in Islam (think might be third most important prophet but may have got that wrong) and hence it would be very odd indeed to ban mention of him. I am afraid yet again you have gone down a path of being outraged by something that doesn't happen except in your imagination (at least in the vast vast majority of cases),. Is it time to stop digging? Read it carefully what I 'actually' posted.
"It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship".
Why would a country not make their own language and religion first (except the UK of course)?
It is only in the UK that we disown our own religion to appease others, if a UK school DARE to teach only about the Christian faith, beliefs, take it from me we'd be torn apart, any other country can do as they please.
I’m not here to talk about what other countries do. Fuck knows why you are now introducing language or what point you are trying to make there. Suggest we let that drop. The UK doesn’t have its “own religion”, it has many religions and none. We agree that all religions and none should be respect and mutual understanding yet you seem to be going all Animal Farm on us. All religions should be respected equally but your religion should be respected more equally than others. Absolutely if a CoE school were to teach purely Christianity or present Christianity as fact (and some come perilously close to that line) they should absolutely be castigated just as an Islamic School does the same about Islam. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 30, 2022 19:07:10 GMT
Read it carefully what I 'actually' posted.
"It stands to reason each school throughout the world is taught about their own religion and worship".
Why would a country not make their own language and religion first (except the UK of course)?
It is only in the UK that we disown our own religion to appease others, if a UK school DARE to teach only about the Christian faith, beliefs, take it from me we'd be torn apart, any other country can do as they please.
I’m not here to talk about what other countries do. Fuck knows why you are now introducing language or what point you are trying to make there. Suggest we let that drop. The UK doesn’t have its “own religion”, it has many religions and none. We agree that all religions and none should be respect and mutual understanding yet you seem to be going all Animal Farm on us. All religions should be respected equally but your religion should be respected more equally than others. Absolutely if a CoE school were to teach purely Christianity or present Christianity as fact (and some come perilously close to that line) they should absolutely be castigated just as an Islamic School does the same about Islam. The whole point is that when you decided to move or locate to another country who has totally different religions and cultures to your own, you do not go to that country who his hosting you as a 'visitor' for you to FORCE your native religions cultures and beliefs on to them.
YOU go to that country and you OBEY and respect the native cultures and religions of that country and if you don't want to do that then ........ FUCK OFF.
If their religions and cultures deeply offends your own, then DO NOT GO THERE.
What you do not expect is for your host country to drop their religion and cultures in favour of the GUEST.
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 30, 2022 19:29:25 GMT
I don't agree a cross is a sign of christianty think its a abolition but if they think its a sign that Enhance there faith fine by me.
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Post by dappy on Nov 30, 2022 20:13:44 GMT
The “whole point” seems to have been a bit of a moveable feast Fairsociety
So where have we got to now.
It seems to be that you expect people who have other religions (or presumably none) to not just respect your religions rules and conventions but OBEY them. You don’t want as you claimed all people to respect each other’s religions , you want everyone else to be be subservient to you. I presume that applies to a young lad, born here, every bit as British as you but who happens to have say muslim faith or people like me who have no faith at all.
Well sorry mate I have signed up to follow my country’s laws but not the rules of a religion. If I choose to covet my neighbours ass, then coveting I will do. Not to such an extent that it bothers her or interferes with her enjoyment of her life - that wouldn’t be fair - but if I fancy a bit of surreptitious ass coveting, frankly it’s no one else’s business. And the same would apply if I was a recent Hindu immigrant.
We’ve been here before. No one is forcing the UK to “drop “its “ - by which you mean your - religion”. Each example you have tried to give has proven to exist solely in your imagination - from crosses to schools to rebranding Easter to Harvest festival , all made up. The reality is however that increasing numbers of people are choosing not to be interested. I presume that’s allowed?
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