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Post by oracle75 on Jun 16, 2024 9:56:32 GMT
In the same way that the Boy Scouts used to be. You can't coordinate trade and make trade deals without a unifired voice. Obviously. I think most people know what you've said here isn't quite true. I see Pacifico has also quoted the EU itself about the UK's lack of wanting 'ever closer political union'. It would help if you explained what union you are talking about. Economic? Cultural? Environmental? Trade? Otherwise you can't discuss the slogan. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 16, 2024 10:05:42 GMT
I was only enquiring how you had arrived at the conclusion that the EU was "flooding countries with unwanted and unneeded immigration", but if it's too hard for you to explain I won't press the matter. The idea that any country "floods" itself with immigrants is silly. It is immigrants who decide to move. And is out of the control of the place of destination. What is in their control is how to deal with them. Every nation has the right to do that for themselves but like mâture people, VOLUNTARILY AGREE to pool resources and try to spread the load. They don't blame each other for the migration. They blame the people traffikers and criminal governments who abuse their own population. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 16, 2024 10:12:51 GMT
If any country is flooding itself with immigrants that is the UK. On a per capita basis it admits more than any of the traditional destination countries including the USA.
Even if asylum seekers are included the EU admits relatively few compared to the UK (on a per capita basis).
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 16, 2024 21:06:38 GMT
I think most people know what you've said here isn't quite true. I see Pacifico has also quoted the EU itself about the UK's lack of wanting 'ever closer political union'. It would help if you explained what union you are talking about. Economic? Cultural? Environmental? Trade? Otherwise you can't discuss the slogan. Like I said, what you post isn't quite true. And now it seems you conveniently don't know we're talking about. We're talking about the European Union and its call for 'ever closer union'. Let's just recap what you said because your obfuscation isn't going to work. |
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Post by dodgydave on Jun 16, 2024 23:34:48 GMT
It's not FoM which is propelling the populist movements on the continent but rather immigration from the Middle East, Africa, the sub-continent and China. As for six million EU nationals in the UK, the 2021 census counted 3.7 million. Where are the other 2+ million hiding? Six million applied to stay... so shock horror... not everybody fills out the census correctly. In 2007 the big supermarkets reckoned the population of the UK was between 77-80 based on how much food they were selling: www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-on-a-plate-our-population-is-at-least-77-million-5328454.htmlSome people have tried to discredit those numbers, but we keep getting anonolies like the one you pointed out. If there was only 3.7m here, how come 6m applied to stay... and that's the ones who wanted to stay... we can assume a large amount didn't... so didn't apply. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 17, 2024 6:52:26 GMT
Yes we had many discussions about the 'Tesco Legend' on earlier incarnations of this forum.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 17, 2024 7:36:03 GMT
Yes we had many discussions about the 'Tesco Legend' on earlier incarnations of this forum. I'd trust Tesco figures over Government figures on this. Every government since from New Labour onwards has lied to the public about immigration; claiming to want to control it, while actually doing the exact opposite, constantly trying to hide the scale of the negative impacts of so much immigration over such a short period of time, and often playing-up the net benefits. Of course, the lies don't work anymore, the Public see the reality: too few school places, education standards falling as more and more is spent on translation, becoming nigh on impossible to see your GP, social housing either unavailable or stretched to breaking point, NHS at breaking point increasing job insecurity, downward pressure on wages, upward pressure on cost of living, and the horrendous rise in crime rates for certain types of crime. All of these things were already well under way long before the COVID Pandemic and Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine. The current models of immigration in this country are utterly broken, for British Citizens in the lower quintile of incomes they have been an unmitigated disaster, with absolutely no net benefits for them at all; which is precisely it was the Labour strongholds that voted so overwhelmingly for Brexit. The "working class" has been stabbed in the back, and then thrown under the bus. All The Best |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 17, 2024 8:11:06 GMT
"I'd trust Tesco figures over Government figures on this."
I've always maintained that the official statistics, whether the census or the quarterly immigration reports, are plenty bad enough and if you stick to them, rather than making things up, nobody can attack your flank.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 17, 2024 8:24:40 GMT
"I'd trust Tesco figures over Government figures on this." I've always maintained that the official statistics, whether the census or the quarterly immigration reports, are plenty bad enough and if you stick to them, rather than making things up, nobody can attack your flank. LOL who happened to mention them in the first place Daniel, it certainly wasn't the middle classes, or Huntingdon Smythe. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 17, 2024 8:46:31 GMT
"I'd trust Tesco figures over Government figures on this." I've always maintained that the official statistics, whether the census or the quarterly immigration reports, are plenty bad enough and if you stick to them, rather than making things up, nobody can attack your flank. LOL who happened to mention them in the first place Daniel, it certainly wasn't the middle classes, or Huntingdon Smythe. 'Them' being what sheepy? |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 17, 2024 8:49:45 GMT
LOL who happened to mention them in the first place Daniel, it certainly wasn't the middle classes, or Huntingdon Smythe. 'Them' being what sheepy? The very large discrepancy, by the government and civil service figures and the Tesco ones. Which seemed to point at the aforementioned were lying and making it up as they went along? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 17, 2024 8:54:29 GMT
'Them' being what sheepy? The very large discrepancy, by the government and civil service figures and the Tesco ones. Which seemed to point at the aforementioned were lying and making it up as they went along? Unfortunately sheeps nobody has ever been able to turn up actual proof that the Tesco Legend is real, not even Tesco themselves.
In the meantime net migration was 685,000 last year. The government may be low-balling that figure, but so what? It's bad enough as it is, isn't it?
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Post by sheepy on Jun 17, 2024 8:57:39 GMT
The very large discrepancy, by the government and civil service figures and the Tesco ones. Which seemed to point at the aforementioned were lying and making it up as they went along? Unfortunately sheeps nobody has ever been able to turn up actual proof that the Tesco Legend is real, not even Tesco themselves.
In the meantime net migration was 685,000 last year. The government may be low-balling that figure, but so what? It's bad enough as it is, isn't it?
How the feck would they know? the border is non-existent. The only people they know about are carrying a passport. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jun 17, 2024 9:00:22 GMT
That's right, 685K is the number of legal arrivals carrying visas issued by HMG. Illegals are on top of that.
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Post by oracle75 on Jun 17, 2024 9:28:14 GMT
It would help if you explained what union you are talking about. Economic? Cultural? Environmental? Trade? Otherwise you can't discuss the slogan. Like I said, what you post isn't quite true. And now it seems you conveniently don't know we're talking about. We're talking about the European Union and its call for 'ever closer union'. Let's just recap what you said because your obfuscation isn't going to work. And what is wrong with creating a solid allies trading block which also trades with over 90% of the rest of the world after negotiations which benefitted both parties? ISTM the UK is the only country I know that constantly wants to renegotiate agreements because they made poor deals for themselves in the first place. |
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