|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 12, 2024 18:23:16 GMT
I'm more interested in the macro effects than sob stories about individual migrants in the media, especially stories that are 10 or twenty years old.
The safeguards provided for in the FoM directives include equal treatment for bona-fide workers and their families as far as state benefits are concerned. Since most of the important benefits in the UK system are non-contributory this was a very significant pull factor for Eastern European migrants. Most continental countries are much less generous as in the Netherlands where five years contributions are necessary before unemployment benefits can be paid. In France also a contributions record is necessary to claim benefits, including healthcare.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jun 12, 2024 21:14:27 GMT
EU migration policy has no safeguards and people have died as a result of the complete lack of responsibility you enjoyed.
I support managed migration with safeguards. Those who have skills and means still can, those without, don't get encouraged to risk their lives in dangerous gambles.
|
|
|
|
Post by ProVeritas on Jun 13, 2024 17:23:27 GMT
I'm more interested in the macro effects than sob stories about individual migrants in the media, especially stories that are 10 or twenty years old.
The safeguards provided for in the FoM directives include equal treatment for bona-fide workers and their families as far as state benefits are concerned. Since most of the important benefits in the UK system are non-contributory this was a very significant pull factor for Eastern European migrants. Most continental countries are much less generous as in the Netherlands where five years contributions are necessary before unemployment benefits can be paid. In France also a contributions record is necessary to claim benefits, including healthcare.
Macro Effects don't get to cast a vote; Individuals do. You have fallen into the same ideological trap as the EU, only caring about the "big picture" and not about the individuals actually affected by it every single day. THAT is why Electorates are turning against the core ideals of the EU. All The Best |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Jun 14, 2024 0:09:26 GMT
Read the information you just linked, it proves my point entirely. They are not spread out evenly lol. Germany has 4.5 million of that 13.9 million! If you don't think there isn't massive resentment at foreign nationals flooding in and taking jobs then explain the move to the right happening across the EU. Also, if those figures are as shit as ours were, then you can double them because we were told it was 2-3 million when it was really 5-6 million! |
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Jun 14, 2024 8:13:36 GMT
It's not FoM which is propelling the populist movements on the continent but rather immigration from the Middle East, Africa, the sub-continent and China.
As for six million EU nationals in the UK, the 2021 census counted 3.7 million. Where are the other 2+ million hiding?
|
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Jun 14, 2024 9:51:09 GMT
It's not FoM which is propelling the populist movements on the continent but rather immigration from the Middle East, Africa, the sub-continent and China. As for six million EU nationals in the UK, the 2021 census counted 3.7 million. Where are the other 2+ million hiding? I guess then Dan, that is an admittance that the EU were more than just complicit. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 11:16:49 GMT
As things currently stand in this country, MOST people from the business world, in particular exporters, believe that Brexit was a huge mistake. EVERY poll conducted on the issue of EU membership over the last 2 years shows a referendum tomorrow would result in rejoining the EU by a wider margin than the result of 2016. Political parties which have aspirations to rejoin the EU include the Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid, The Green Party and Sin Fein. In the last two BBC Question Time episodes, business leaders and politicians who have argued the case for rejoining the EU have received rapturous applause from the audiences. The Number 1 reason why the far right has risen in mainland Europe is because of immigration, not the European Union. In many instances, people who are pro-EU have voted for the far right solely because of immigration from outside the EU, including refugees and asylum seekers. There is no huge appetite in Europe to dismantle the EU or to withdraw from the EU Precisely. The EU was not mentioned in any campaign I was aware of. And heads of state and national parliament remain as before. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 11:18:52 GMT
Ever closer union was about TRADE, not national politics |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 11:22:45 GMT
But even you must be aware that there is much more to the EU than that. Starting at the bottom with the 450 million EU citizens of the 27 member states and working up from there. You couldn't have it more wrong. The problem with the EU is that it doesn't start at the bottom. The people have to give way to the EU's dirigiste approach, the unelected intelligentsia know what's best for 450 million minions. EU wisdom entails that governing can only be entrusted to a self appointed elite, rather than giving voice to the common people. The self-appointed intelligentsia of an elite lay down the rules to less wise people (common people) who carry said rules out. See the fact of the matter that smokey bacon crisps will be taken away as a moderate choice to snack on, because those self-appointed at the top know what's better for the little people like you. You cede yourselves to them as voiceless and choiceless. They tell you what to do and how to do it, not the other way round. How ironic that the very Tory Brexit govt adopted these very methods for putting 4 different PM's into power with nary a popular vote being sought. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 11:25:35 GMT
If you bothered to read your own link you'd have discovered that the 'burden' under contention refers to 'immigrants' which particular member states have admitted, and that the EU is only implementing the decisions (again made by member states) to share the 'burden'.
If member states hadn't let them in there'd be no burden to share.
Dont talk bloody rubbish. Mass immigration is being imposed on member states by the EU. The EU set a fine of €250,000 per migrant for countries that refuse EU-imposed quotas for the resettlement of asylum-seekers - linkSo you don't know the meaning of the word PROPOSED. The idea wasn't adopted. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 11:30:10 GMT
I'm more interested in the macro effects than sob stories about individual migrants in the media, especially stories that are 10 or twenty years old.
The safeguards provided for in the FoM directives include equal treatment for bona-fide workers and their families as far as state benefits are concerned. Since most of the important benefits in the UK system are non-contributory this was a very significant pull factor for Eastern European migrants. Most continental countries are much less generous as in the Netherlands where five years contributions are necessary before unemployment benefits can be paid. In France also a contributions record is necessary to claim benefits, including healthcare.
Macro Effects don't get to cast a vote; Individuals do. You have fallen into the same ideological trap as the EU, only caring about the "big picture" and not about the individuals actually affected by it every single day. THAT is why Electorates are turning against the core ideals of the EU. All The Best Except that they aren't. The core ideals are written into the treaty of Rome and subsequent constitutional rewrite. (is Maastrich) No one has ever called for changes. |
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Jun 14, 2024 11:44:40 GMT
Ever closer union was about TRADE, not national politics Wrong. The EU is also a POLITICAL Union. |
|
|
|
Post by oracle75 on Jun 14, 2024 13:45:11 GMT
Ever closer union was about TRADE, not national politics Wrong. The EU is also a POLITICAL Union. In the same way that the Boy Scouts used to be. You can't coordinate trade and make trade deals without a unifired voice. Obviously. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jun 14, 2024 16:56:07 GMT
Ever closer union was about TRADE, not national politics That is not what the EU say.
“It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom”
|
|
|
|
Post by ProVeritas on Jun 14, 2024 19:56:49 GMT
Macro Effects don't get to cast a vote; Individuals do. You have fallen into the same ideological trap as the EU, only caring about the "big picture" and not about the individuals actually affected by it every single day. THAT is why Electorates are turning against the core ideals of the EU. All The Best Except that they aren't. The core ideals are written into the treaty of Rome and subsequent constitutional rewrite. (is Maastrich) No one has ever called for changes. But most of those "constitutional rewrites" (moving the goalposts) were never put to the various electorates to ratify. That was the point of the "ratchet clauses" that create a huge democratic deficit. Of course, where they were put to the electorates to ratify they were usually rejected; then the EU did its "vote again and get it right this time" schtick, which also created a democratic deficit. All The Best |
|
