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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 18, 2024 14:57:13 GMT
No, you don't address my points you post nonsense variably imagined deviating thoughts, that are just your hideaway opinions.. I addressed exactly your statement we need facts when in truth a 'fact' is often cloaked in opinion. Examples of such would be the BNP are a far right party, the EU is a Union of like minded countries for mutual benefit and Rishi Sunak was a Tory PM. That's not an opinion, that is just a fact. It might be a fact you don't like, but is still a fact. All The Best |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 18, 2024 14:59:41 GMT
No the right is absolute, there is no prevarication anything the government does or does not reasonably do that leads to a higher risk of that happening then they are taking away that right from you. That is clear as all judgements not to send people back are based on a risk of that happening should one be sent back. A risk is a risk is a risk, there is no quantifying it as far as I am aware. Not controlling borders adequately, when they have the means to do just that, increases risk for every individual in the country as those coming in are unknown quantities and in fact on some occasions known dangerous criminals. So you are admitting I have NOT lost any rights. Got it. All The Best You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 18, 2024 15:01:40 GMT
I addressed exactly your statement we need facts when in truth a 'fact' is often cloaked in opinion. Examples of such would be the BNP are a far right party, the EU is a Union of like minded countries for mutual benefit and Rishi Sunak was a Tory PM. That's not an opinion, that is just a fact. It might be a fact you don't like, but is still a fact. All The Best Some people disagree therefore it must count as opinion, even most of the policies fall into the socialist bracket. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 18, 2024 15:11:30 GMT
So you are admitting I have NOT lost any rights. Got it. All The Best You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. I get all that. But the argument as originally posited was that I had lost rights because of Labour. And what do you imagine Lammy & Co are doing, while bending over for Brussels and signing our rights away for nothing in return? Can it be demonstrated that I have lost any rights? All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 18, 2024 15:14:17 GMT
That's not an opinion, that is just a fact. It might be a fact you don't like, but is still a fact. All The Best , even most of the policies fall into the socialist bracket. Not at all. Some people could disagree and be FACTUALLY WRONG. Some people may have the opinion that the earth is flat - that does not mean the earth being spherical is a "matter of opinion", it means those people are WRONG. All The Best |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 18, 2024 15:26:02 GMT
Some people disagree therefore it must count as opinion, even most of the policies fall into the socialist bracket. Not at all. Some people could disagree and be FACTUALLY WRONG. Some people may have the opinion that the earth is flat - that does not mean the earth being spherical is a "matter of opinion", it means those people are WRONG. All The Best They could but 'far right' is an opinion as it is not clearly defined. The earth can be clearly defined within our current knowledge. With many policies being socialist it could be an opinion that it is a socialist party. One thing we have to be thankful for is that although you believe you are neither you nor I are the arbiters of fact |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 18, 2024 15:28:12 GMT
Some people disagree therefore it must count as opinion, even most of the policies fall into the socialist bracket. Not at all. Some people could disagree and be FACTUALLY WRONG. Some people may have the opinion that the earth is flat - that does not mean the earth being spherical is a "matter of opinion", it means those people are WRONG. All The Best Each one is debatable. They are not hard facts . The claim that the Earth is sophisticated a hard fact . |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 18, 2024 15:29:10 GMT
Not at all. Some people could disagree and be FACTUALLY WRONG. Some people may have the opinion that the earth is flat - that does not mean the earth being spherical is a "matter of opinion", it means those people are WRONG. All The Best Each one is debatable. They are not hard facts . The claim that the Earth is sophisticated a hard fact . Are you really saying that it is debatable that the earth is, effectively, spherical? All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 18, 2024 15:30:21 GMT
So you are admitting I have NOT lost any rights. Got it. All The Best You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. Actually, the ECHR requires the courts to balance the rights of the individual against those of society as a whole. Something that our courts singularly ignore. |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 18, 2024 15:30:31 GMT
You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. I get all that. But the argument as originally posited was that I had lost rights because of Labour. And what do you imagine Lammy & Co are doing, while bending over for Brussels and signing our rights away for nothing in return? Can it be demonstrated that I have lost any rights? All The Best The deportation of many people have been stopped not because they have lost rights but that there is a risk that those rights will be taken from them in their home country. And since life and torture rights are absolute, their words not mine, an increased risk is removal of rights |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 18, 2024 15:32:43 GMT
Each one is debatable. They are not hard facts . The claim that the Earth is sophisticated a hard fact . Are you really saying that it is debatable that the earth is, effectively, spherical? All The Best Did I say that ? Although my spell checker thinks the Earth is sophisticated instead of spherical. Do you want me to repost? |
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Post by sandypine on Jul 18, 2024 15:33:07 GMT
You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. Actually, the ECHR requires the courts to balance the rights of the individual against those of society as a whole. Something that our courts singularly ignore. Yes you are right but not it seems as regards life and torture rights they are absolute and no balance can be made. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 18, 2024 15:45:13 GMT
You are not paying attention, the right is absolute as quoted in the convention itself. Nothing can be actively undertaken by government that would increase that risk as that is you losing a right. Within reason the government have to take steps to prevent that risk increasing for you. The Human Rights Convention is a treaty between our government and every person who falls within that government's remit either at home or abroad. The point of course is that the law considers the populace unimportant and will only deal with the individual yet the populace is justa collection of individuals. I get all that. But the argument as originally posited was that I had lost rights because of Labour. And what do you imagine Lammy & Co are doing, while bending over for Brussels and signing our rights away for nothing in return? Can it be demonstrated that I have lost any rights? Yes. Any submission to the rules and regulations of a foreign power, over which we have no democratic control (and even voted to leave), is a de facto loss of your rights. Your rights are not a mere list of things granted by the government, they are inherent. Democratic representation is probably the greatest of those rights and one which Labour (themselves hardly democratically elected) are working to curtail. So yes, you have lost (or are at least in the process of losing) your most fundamental rights. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jul 18, 2024 16:25:05 GMT
They are all fucking off on holiday at the end of next week so nothing is going to get done until September.. Constituency Work continues when Parliament is not in session. Well, at least that is the excuse they use for being paid for 365 days a year when Parliament sits for a lot less than that. Parliament 58 (the last one) sat for just 675 days from 2019-2024, out of a potential 1647 Days - so only just 40.98% of available days. source: commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04653/Let's not forget that MPs are paid from the Public Purse, and the Tories have been very firm on trying to make sure that the Public Purse get VFM, even to the point of cutting some NHS pay by over 30% in Real Terms. Funny then that they never turn that VFM microscope on themselves, isn't it. So to be paid for 365 Days a year an MP should be able to prove they actually work for their constituency for 365 days a year. Or they should have their salaries, and gold plated pensions adjusted accordingly. Given the calculation above they should only be receiving 41% of their annual salary and pension contributions. Er.. Farage is not a Tory... 🤔 |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 18, 2024 17:09:22 GMT
I get all that. But the argument as originally posited was that I had lost rights because of Labour. Can it be demonstrated that I have lost any rights? All The Best The deportation of many people have been stopped not because they have lost rights but that there is a risk that those rights will be taken from them in their home country. And since life and torture rights are absolute, their words not mine, an increased risk is removal of rights Yes, yes, I know. But that still does NOT demonstrate that I have lost any rights, or that any British Citizen has - which is what Squeezed Middle claimed. All The Best |
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