|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 11, 2024 16:10:41 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage.
A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs
Ben Habib
@benhabib6
·
Follow
I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position.
I am considering my position more generally in light of this change.
I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more
Last edited
11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jul 11, 2024 16:25:05 GMT
no if I mind correct , and thirteen years seems like a long time ago now , the public rejected AV. Rejecting AV isnt an endorsement of FPTP. Why dont we have a referendum on do we want to keep the FPTP system , where England is the only country now , or shall I say the Westminster parliament , to use a non PR model in Western Europe. I dont think it's a coincidence the uk is one of the most politically unstable states in Western Europe. Then , when we see wether the public like or dislike FPTP , we can then have a second referendum to agree which system people prefer the most. where? Just because you add two and two and make five doesn't make me demonstrably wrong. Are you saying the public at large think a party getting 64% of seats on a mere 33.7% of the vote is acceptable? The low turnout itself is an indicator of how the public feel disillusioned and aren't engaging in politics. The root cause being why bother to vote when my vote won't count? The electoral system is not the problem, political dishonesty, propaganda using lies and insinuated lies along with, in the main, pathetic political leaders and followers, is where the problem lays. Changing the system wont change people. The electoral system is the problem. Im not arrogant enough to assume I can change tens of thousands of years of the evolution of human nature and all its cons , but we can make a simple change of what is arguably the western worlds most unrepresentative political system . I dont like politicians who lie , are dishonest ,or cheat , but I would be more accepting of a liar like keir starmer getting a proportionate share of seats to his vote than I would getting 64% off the back of 20% of the electorate. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jul 11, 2024 16:28:56 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage. A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs Ben Habib @benhabib6 · Follow I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position. I am considering my position more generally in light of this change. I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more Last edited 11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024 you have some neck posting that guff with the way starmer has purged the fucking Labour Party of every true working class socialist , and sent carpetbaggers to the four corners of the uk over the heads of the local labour groups wether they liked it or not. Thats all you labour clowns have , mud slinging and name calling , and not a brain cell between the lot of you. No wonder you got half a million votes less than Corbyn did in 2019. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jul 11, 2024 16:32:47 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage. A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs Ben Habib @benhabib6 · Follow I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position. I am considering my position more generally in light of this change. I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more Last edited 11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024 is there a party row in starmers politburo with lady nugee being demoted from shadow attorney general? I mean come on. I take it you are running scared of reform sid. |
|
|
|
Post by ProVeritas on Jul 11, 2024 17:08:58 GMT
Problem is, those are you words not mine. And you entered this debate discussing Farage so you clearly do give a fuck. And what you regard as a competent deal; some may regard as incompetent. Opinions. Democracy. Well you won't get that shackled to the EU, but I could imagine how you'd react to a party like Reform getting its way with direct democracy. You'd just berate Reform voters still the same. See where this is going? Yes, I remember that's where Farage was a fox in the henhouse. And the same thing doesn't happen in the EU does it. You are aware of the lobbyists over there, right? Wrong. National sovereignty acted as a hurdle to the desire of the EU's economic, political and social hegemony. You are making baseless assumptions all from me calling Nigel a fox. You've gone way out on a limb there like you have done throughout. You have an issue with democracy full stop. You've shown us this with you gambit about the monarchy. It seems, YOU only want a democracy that suits YOU. And if anyone votes for people or parties you don't like you make insinuations and generalisations about them. That's my take from your chip on the shoulder rants. Sorry about the quoting, I am a digital immigrant. Hang on, you DID say this: The implication being that National Sovereignty should not be allowed to limit economic freedom. Thereby placing Private Sector Profits above Democracy. You would, it seems, sacrifice National Sovereignty and Democratic Accountability for Market Profitability. I would see National Sovereignty AND Democratic Accountability take precedence over Market Profitability. Especially as the current Market system is wholly rigged against our National Interest. All The Best |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jul 11, 2024 17:16:57 GMT
Sorry about the quoting, I am a digital immigrant. Hang on, you DID say this: The implication being that National Sovereignty should not be allowed to limit economic freedom. Thereby placing Private Sector Profits above Democracy. You would, it seems, sacrifice National Sovereignty and Democratic Accountability for Market Profitability. I would see National Sovereignty AND Democratic Accountability take precedence over Market Profitability. Especially as the current Market system is wholly rigged against our National Interest. All The Best Because planned economies have always been such a success.🙄 |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Jul 11, 2024 17:53:43 GMT
It was the expansion of the EU into poorer countries that changed everything, until then FOM had been restricted to countries of roughly equal economies. Once economic disparity between countries grew greater then the richer countries received an influx of those seeking better pay and conditions for the same level of work. That is why areas became changed almost overnight. Many people accepted slow change but rapid change raises the hackles and this was easy to see as to what was happening. Change over 20 years is a progression, the same change in two years is an imposition. OK, now we are getting somewhere. I agree it was the pace of change that was the huge problem. I broadly agree with your comments that EU Membership was not a significant problem in relation to FoM when all the Member Economies were roughly equal; but I am minded to point out that EU Economic Policy has really ONLY EVER served two nations - Germany and France, everyone else has always got the shitty end of the stick. Too many EU Members were allowed in without properly meeting the EU Economic and Fiscal requirements - not just Eastern European nations, but also Greece for example. The EEC / SM / EU started to fail IMO when it became more about Ideology than it did Practicality. When it was about the Practicality of reducing trade barriers among Members it was fine. When it became about the Ideology of expansion regardless of Practicality is when it started to fail. And all of this comes down, IMO, to two things: 1) a massive Democratic Deficit and 2) no direct Democratic Accountability. The issue I have now is that we still have both of those things in the UK even now were are out of the EU. All The Best I did not say EU membership was not a problem I said FOM was not a problem. I have for many years thought EU membership was a problem. We still have the problems you refer to above but fixing it is a possibility within our democratic framework and accountability in the UK is closer to the people than the EU is and ever likely to be. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jul 11, 2024 18:13:36 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage. A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs Ben Habib @benhabib6 · Follow I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position. I am considering my position more generally in light of this change. I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more Last edited 11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024 As I have said openly since the day the Brexit Party was formed The Party is a limited company. I thought it was limited by guarantee but it is actually limited by shares. It is engineered to prevent the sort of shit UKIP got itself into. It has no members, only supporters That it has not completely avoided candidate shittery is a problem for the national nominating officer. |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 11, 2024 19:25:11 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage. A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs Ben Habib @benhabib6 · Follow I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position. I am considering my position more generally in light of this change. I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more Last edited 11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024 is there a party row in starmers politburo with lady nugee being demoted from shadow attorney general? I mean come on. I take it you are running scared of reform sid. Reform can do damage to Labour, but no where near as much as the damage they do to the Tories, and NO I do not fear Reform at all, as Harold Wilson said "a week is a long time in politics" and so 4 or 5 years to the next election is an eternity. |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Jul 11, 2024 19:48:32 GMT
Hasent there always been a kind of political circus surrounding or following Nigel Farage. A Party row / split ? ... with only 5 MPs Ben Habib @benhabib6 · Follow I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position. I am considering my position more generally in light of this change. I have long held concerns about the control of the party… Show more Last edited 11:32 AM · Jul 11, 2024 you have some neck posting that guff with the way starmer has purged the fucking Labour Party of every true working class socialist , and sent carpetbaggers to the four corners of the uk over the heads of the local labour groups wether they liked it or not. Thats all you labour clowns have , mud slinging and name calling , and not a brain cell between the lot of you. No wonder you got half a million votes less than Corbyn did in 2019. A "Left wing" orthodox "Socialist" Labour Party cannot win a general election, hence the record majorities of firstly Tony Blair, and now Keir Starmer, as opposed to the disasters of Michael Foot ( 1983 ) and Jeremy Corbyn ( 2019 ). The days of TUC membership of 12 million people and mass production, heavy industry, mines and shipyards, brothers and comrades, has gone. Labour can no longer win elections with factions, it cannot win elections without the middle class or middle England, including people who sometimes vote Tory. No one knows what the result would have been if Reform UK did not exist, we can only guess, smaller parties are attracting more support these days, and our FPTP system throws up warped and distorted results. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2024 20:46:20 GMT
Meanwhile...
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jul 11, 2024 21:13:40 GMT
A metaphor for Labours policy forum? |
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Jul 12, 2024 9:14:42 GMT
Sorry about the quoting, I am a digital immigrant. Hang on, you DID say this: The implication being that National Sovereignty should not be allowed to limit economic freedom. Thereby placing Private Sector Profits above Democracy. You would, it seems, sacrifice National Sovereignty and Democratic Accountability for Market Profitability. I would see National Sovereignty AND Democratic Accountability take precedence over Market Profitability. Especially as the current Market system is wholly rigged against our National Interest. All The Best Yes, I know what I said. You're talking rubbish. Putting words in my mouth that I have not said. You are shoehorning the issue of 'the markets' into Britain being able to diverge from EU hegemony. National sovereignty is an obstacle to EU hegemony. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2024 9:19:12 GMT
A metaphor for Labours policy forum? That Tweet of Calvin Robinson has disappeared, I can't remember what it said exactly, I wish I had screenshot it.  |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jul 12, 2024 9:55:56 GMT
is there a party row in starmers politburo with lady nugee being demoted from shadow attorney general? I mean come on. I take it you are running scared of reform sid. Reform can do damage to Labour, but no where near as much as the damage they do to the Tories, and NO I do not fear Reform at all, as Harold Wilson said "a week is a long time in politics" and so 4 or 5 years to the next election is an eternity. how so? I though Farages old UKIP party did a lot of damage to labours old red wall , as well as the fact two thirds of labours 2016 constituencies voted Brexit ? I think clearly reform are damaging both labour and tory , and arguing over which party has suffered the worst is nothing more than desperation on your part. I predict starmers new labour will gift reform millions of voters over the coming years. |
|
