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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 6, 2024 7:52:35 GMT
1) Truss lost a 32,000 majority in her own seat. She has clearly been rejected by the electorate. 2) Where has this sudden lie that Reform are the 3rd Party come from? They are not! The Lib-Dems, SNP and Sinn Fein all have MORE seats than Reform; and in our, much flawed, FPTP system Seats is what matters, not nation-wide % of the vote. If we had PR you'd have a point; but we don't, so you don't. FFS this is already feeling like see2 blaming all of New Labour's many failures of the International Financial Meltdown; it is revisionist bollocks, and should be called out as such. Reform UK stood candidates for election in a FPTP system; in that FPTP system they are NOT the 3rd placed party, they are the 6th placed party.All The Best You can only the fight the election as it is - not as you would wish it to be. But that does not diminish the fact that Reform have been remarkably successful is such a short period of time. There will now be a push from the smaller parties across the spectrum for a referendum on PR - just as we saw when UKIP were pushing for a referendum on EU membership. And we all know how that worked out. I agree. There should be a referendum on PR, and I would vote in favour of PR, and hope that the majority did likewise. But under the current system (flawed as it is) Reform UK are the 6th placed party, not the 3rd; and it is dishonest to suggest otherwise, and IMO further diminishes trust in our entire Political System. Really doesn't what voting system we have if the the whole edifice is so distrusted Voter Turnout plummets to the point that no election could honestly be considered a genuine Mandate from the Electorate. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 6, 2024 7:53:44 GMT
Here's a thought. Farage supported Liz Truss's Mini-Budget, claiming it was "the best Conservative budget since 1986". Some people claim there is growing support for Farage and Reform UK's policy set. Reform UK's economic policy is not hugely dissimilar to Truss's lunacy. It should, therefore, stand to reason that IF there is support for such economic policy those that espouse it should either gain new seats, or retain existing seats. However, Liz Truss was ousted, losing one of the largest majorities in this election. I just do not see any evidence, thus far, of a genuine groundswell of support for Reform UK and their policies. All The Best Liz Truss seems to have been ousted by a very personal targeted campaign to oust her rather than any general swing away from real conservatism Dream on. Her brand of Conservatism was seen as toxic, and above all critically flawed. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 6, 2024 7:55:15 GMT
Liz Truss seems to have been ousted by a very personal targeted campaign to oust her rather than any general swing away from real conservatism over 2/3rds of Tory Seats lost were lost to Reform so that does not indicate any great move away from real conservatism.. That works only if you are dumb enough to think Reform offers "real conservatism". All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jul 6, 2024 7:58:15 GMT
Yea of course you can its a Democracy Great ,I’ve a better idea can we pretend that Starmer won and can get on with whatever his plans are but in reality block it at every turn via the civil service and say all the people who voted for him are thick and stupid and will soon be dead so it really doesn’t count? Sounds good doesn’t it?  The Civil Service ONLY challenged the Tories where what the Tories were offering was likely to be illegal, or in violation of existing Treaties. It is part of the Civil Services job to the EXACTLY THAT, and I hope they do exactly the same for Labour. However, as William Waldegrave once said "It is a feeble Minister who blames the Civil Service for not delivering his policies". All Tee Best |
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Post by wapentake on Jul 6, 2024 8:00:17 GMT
Great ,I’ve a better idea can we pretend that Starmer won and can get on with whatever his plans are but in reality block it at every turn via the civil service and say all the people who voted for him are thick and stupid and will soon be dead so it really doesn’t count? Sounds good doesn’t it? The Civil Service ONLY challenged the Tories where what the Tories were offering was likely to be illegal, or in violation of existing Treaties. It is part of the Civil Services job to the EXACTLY THAT, and I hope they do exactly the same for Labour. However, as William Waldegrave once said "It is a feeble Minister who blames the Civil Service for not delivering his policies". All Tee Best you taken up Golf PV have you? |
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Post by sheepy on Jul 6, 2024 8:25:35 GMT
I really don't care how he does it, as long as he does it by democratic means. If PR is a step of getting our country back then fair enough.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 6, 2024 9:31:55 GMT
Like dealing with a global pandemic, for instance. Thank god Labour were not in charge for that. Labour supported pretty much everything the Tories wanted to do; and would likely have done similar - as most of the world was doing. Of course Labour might not have pissed quite so much away on dodgy PPE contracts for their mates. All The Best Starmer criticised Boris for not locking down sooner, not locking down harder, and not locking down for longer. I say again, thank god Labour were not in charge for that. |
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Post by Bentley on Jul 6, 2024 9:39:38 GMT
Great ,I’ve a better idea can we pretend that Starmer won and can get on with whatever his plans are but in reality block it at every turn via the civil service and say all the people who voted for him are thick and stupid and will soon be dead so it really doesn’t count? Sounds good doesn’t it? The Civil Service ONLY challenged the Tories where what the Tories were offering was likely to be illegal, or in violation of existing Treaties. It is part of the Civil Services job to the EXACTLY THAT, and I hope they do exactly the same for Labour. However, as William Waldegrave once said "It is a feeble Minister who blames the Civil Service for not delivering his policies".
All Tee Best Other cabinet ministers have said other things . I suppose it depend on how feeble the policies are that you want delivered. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 6, 2024 9:42:50 GMT
Well if these junior doctors accept a deal similar to what the Tories offered, but accept it from Labour then we absolutely know the NHS (public servants) were playing politics.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 6, 2024 10:07:30 GMT
Look we don't know to this day why Liz Truss Mini-Budget brought down the World Economy I beg to differ. Indeed i very strenuously beg to differ. Truss tells anyone who cares to borrow a book from their local library at zero cost to themselves what did it In her book she could not be clearer. Her mini budget pushed for growth at the expense of rising interest rates. Others had done the same but what NOBODY - especially not in the festering pile at the pointless Office For Budget Responsibility invented to give Gideon and Co under Cameron an excuse to fuck us all over - knew was that Pension Fund Managers, deprived of the tax advantages of Dividend growth by that odious irritable one eyed incompetent Brown who fucked their ability to reclaim ACT, and screwed by the declaration that short selling in a bear market was unethical, had bet the family silver on some rather dodgy financial dealings that bank rates were going to stay low, and when they did not, our pension funds haemorrhaged. The various organisations stacked against proper Conservatism then joyfully actrd to wreck things and blame her while tbe greasy indian git irchestrated things from afar to ice the cake. It really isn’t any more complex than that |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 6, 2024 10:17:07 GMT
Look we don't know to this day why Liz Truss Mini-Budget brought down the World Economy I beg to differ. Indeed i very strenuously beg to differ. Truss tells anyone who cares to borrow a book from their local library at zero cost to themselves what did it In her book she could not be clearer. Her mini budget pushed for growth at the expense of rising interest rates. Others had done the same but what NOBODY - especially not in the festering pile at the pointless Office For Budget Responsibility invented to give Gideon and Co under Cameron an excuse to fuck us all over - knew was that Pension Fund Managers, deprived of the tax advantages of Dividend growth by that odious irritable one eyed incompetent Brown who fucked their ability to reclaim ACT, and screwed by the declaration that short selling in a bear market was unethical, had bet the family silver on some rather dodgy financial dealings that bank rates were going to stay low, and when they did not, our pension funds haemorrhaged. The various organisations stacked against proper Conservatism then joyfully actrd to wreck things and blame her while tbe greasy indian git irchestrated things from afar to ice the cake. It really isn’t any more complex than that Hunts budget wasn't far off Truss with his tax cut talks, there was no financial meltdown when he said it, and the world economy was in a similar place as it was when Truss made the same pledge, so something iffy going on, apart from the fact Truss isn't the sharpest tool in the box, I very much doubt she knew she was a patsy. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jul 6, 2024 10:31:05 GMT
Liz Truss seems to have been ousted by a very personal targeted campaign to oust her rather than any general swing away from real conservatism Dream on. Her brand of Conservatism was seen as toxic, and above all critically flawed. All The Best I'm not the dreamer , there was a highly organised campaign against her personally , it succeeded but shouldn't be interpreted as a deliberate move against conservatism |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 6, 2024 11:30:54 GMT
I beg to differ. Indeed i very strenuously beg to differ. Truss tells anyone who cares to borrow a book from their local library at zero cost to themselves what did it In her book she could not be clearer. Her mini budget pushed for growth at the expense of rising interest rates. Others had done the same but what NOBODY - especially not in the festering pile at the pointless Office For Budget Responsibility invented to give Gideon and Co under Cameron an excuse to fuck us all over - knew was that Pension Fund Managers, deprived of the tax advantages of Dividend growth by that odious irritable one eyed incompetent Brown who fucked their ability to reclaim ACT, and screwed by the declaration that short selling in a bear market was unethical, had bet the family silver on some rather dodgy financial dealings that bank rates were going to stay low, and when they did not, our pension funds haemorrhaged. The various organisations stacked against proper Conservatism then joyfully actrd to wreck things and blame her while tbe greasy indian git irchestrated things from afar to ice the cake. It really isn’t any more complex than that Hunts budget wasn't far off Truss with his tax cut talks, there was no financial meltdown when he said it, and the world economy was in a similar place as it was when Truss made the same pledge, so something iffy going on, apart from the fact Truss isn't the sharpest tool in the box, I very much double she knew she was a patsy. The thing is, Standard and Poor's job has been, since day 1, to reflect by some imponderable word of mouth 'rating' the degree to which the UK chancellor is prepared to sell into slavery every UK citizen to ensure no bank goes under. I agree there was huge overreaction to Truss compared to Hunt. However, it seems to me the main difference was the desire of Kwarteng to not screw the little guy |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jul 6, 2024 11:54:22 GMT
Hunts budget wasn't far off Truss with his tax cut talks, there was no financial meltdown when he said it, and the world economy was in a similar place as it was when Truss made the same pledge, so something iffy going on, apart from the fact Truss isn't the sharpest tool in the box, I very much double she knew she was a patsy. The thing is, Standard and Poor's job has been, since day 1, to reflect by some imponderable word of mouth 'rating' the degree to which the UK chancellor is prepared to sell into slavery every UK citizen to ensure no bank goes under. I agree there was huge overreaction to Truss compared to Hunt. However, it seems to me the main difference was the desire of Kwarteng to not screw the little guy I agree it was a overreaction, she wasn't even given a chance, I bet when Starmer/Labour give their first budget which will likely target anyone with savings and pensions, the dead or dying and the inheriters, there wont be that sort of overkill. |
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Post by bancroft on Jul 6, 2024 12:48:16 GMT
Reform have broken the Westminster bubble.
Some Tories are talking about returning to the political centre, I voted Tory this time yet if Labour do not stop the boats and sort out immigration and the Tory party tries to reposition themselves in the middle then I will vote Reform.
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