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Post by Pacifico on Jun 22, 2024 10:51:31 GMT
Oh look - another politician warning that NATO expansion eastwards would be provoking Russia into war... The only thing that the Russian invasion of Ukraine achieved was... ... The expansion of NATO. 🙄 Yes - but the Russian invasion was predicted by many. That it has not turned out as Russia would have wanted is neither here nor there. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 22, 2024 10:55:00 GMT
...All countries have their borders, and AFAIA, all trade areas have their rules and regulations. LOL, unless they're governed from Brussels. Unless they are governed by an actual dictatorship Russia? Russia is the only one invading a sovereign country in order to impose its control over that country. Which Russia has a record of doing. Which was the country the EU invaded ?? |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 10:56:02 GMT
In essence, what both you and Farage are suggesting is that when approached by the President of Ukraine on behalf of Parliament and the people, the European Union should have informed the Uklrainians that they could not accept Ukraine as a candidate for membership because ... It may upset President Putin. Sorry, but to put this mildly or politely, do you realise how silly that is ? If you had a brain and any understanding of history of the region then you wouldn't be making these retarded posts. Ukraine is a buffer country and the EU with NATO were seen to be breaching the agreement that led to the nuclear disarmament of Ukraine. Obviously the EU's expansionist efforts were considered a breach of that agreement. Russia has been telling you nutters this for decades and gave you plenty of warning that you're provoking a war.
This has nothing to do with Farage. All he did was tell you of the situation and what it will lead to, and he was 100% correct.
Ukraine is not a "buffer country", it is a sovereign state, the same as almost all nations in Europe. In 1991 Russia officialy recognised Ukraine as an independent nation within the borders of what was then Ukraine, including Crimea. Russia at that time will have known the opinions of most Ukrainians, they must have known that closer ties with the EU were on the cards, and people like Gorbachev and Yeltsin accepted this ... Putin did not accept it. Once again, like other posters on here, you are attempting to justify Farage by saying that Ukraine has no right to want to join the European Union because it may upset Putin. As for NATO, there was no desire to join NATO ... UNTIL Russia annexed Crimea and began arming the separatists in The Donbas. Farage is wrong, he is 100% wrong, he cannot accept that as a people and a nation, Ukraine has every right to join both the EU and NATO. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 22, 2024 11:00:32 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VTWKTij684The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . The Russian reaction to the Ukrainian's desire for greater trading with the EU began in 2013, as soon as Yanukovych, Russia's man in the Ukraine, refused to sign the papers for greater trading with the EU, despite the offer made to Ukraine about better dealings with Russia. Putin tried to persuade the Ukraine to agree to greater trading with Russia. He saw his arse when they didn't take his offer. This was followed very quickly by the Russian invasion of Crimea Feb 2014. There's nothing special about Farage, anyone with their eye on the ball could have forecasted trouble ahead. Well if they could all see it why didn't they do anything that would stop the war in Ukraine ? |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 22, 2024 11:00:44 GMT
Stop projecting and stop giggling . You must be shit to live with. You must be a nightmare for your career . |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 22, 2024 11:06:23 GMT
LOL, unless they're governed from Brussels. Unless they are governed by an actual dictatorship Russia? Russia is the only one invading a sovereign country in order to impose its control over that country. Which Russia has a record of doing. Which was the country the EU invaded ?? Your claim that all countries have borders is, quite obviously, wrong. The EU have seen to that. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 11:07:15 GMT
In essence, what both you and Farage are suggesting is that when approached by the President of Ukraine on behalf of Parliament and the people, the European Union should have informed the Ukrainians that they could not accept Ukraine as a candidate for membership because ... It may upset President Putin. Sorry, but to put this mildly or politely, do you realise how silly that is ? Thats not what I'm saying at all . The situation was a delicate one with both Russia and the EU trying to get the EU onside . The elected president of Ukraine decided to go with Russia .That led to riots from the pro EU groups which in turn led to Yanukovch being ousted in favour of the pro EU Yushchenko The diplomatic route was one of the status quo ,an independent Ukraine that was in effect a neutral country with regard to east/west political affiliation I guess that each individual poster on these boards will be particularly knowledgeable in particular fields or areas, as I am sure you will be. For me personaly I have always taken a keen interest in modern Ukrainian history. You are absolutely correct that Yanukovych was elected as the President of Ukraine, he was elected on the proimise that he would forge closer ties with the European Union. The so called Coup, which was not a coup, it was a revolution, happened because Yanukovych was going to do the opposite of what he promised during the presidential election campaign, and this incensed the majority of Ukrainians, the rest is history ... Euromaidan etc |
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Post by Bentley on Jun 22, 2024 11:07:44 GMT
Mexico has every right to join a military alliance with China, Russia and North Korea.
It’s a sovereign country right?
Guess what the US would do if they tried it ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 11:11:43 GMT
If you had a brain and any understanding of history of the region then you wouldn't be making these retarded posts. Ukraine is a buffer country and the EU with NATO were seen to be breaching the agreement that led to the nuclear disarmament of Ukraine. Obviously the EU's expansionist efforts were considered a breach of that agreement. Russia has been telling you nutters this for decades and gave you plenty of warning that you're provoking a war.
This has nothing to do with Farage. All he did was tell you of the situation and what it will lead to, and he was 100% correct.
Ukraine is not a "buffer country", it is a sovereign state, the same as almost all nations in Europe. In 1991 Russia officialy recognised Ukraine as an independent nation within the borders of what was then Ukraine, including Crimea. Russia at that time will have known the opinions of most Ukrainians, they must have known that closer ties with the EU were on the cards, and people like Gorbachev and Yeltsin accepted this ... Putin did not accept it. Once again, like other posters on here, you are attempting to justify Farage by saying that Ukraine has no right to want to join the European Union because it may upset Putin. As for NATO, there was no desire to join NATO ... UNTIL Russia annexed Crimea and began arming the separatists in The Donbas. Farage is wrong, he is 100% wrong, he cannot accept that as a people and a nation, Ukraine has every right to join both the EU and NATO. Ukraine IS a buffer country and no matter what retarded idealistic bollocks you post it doesn't change that fact. This is not about how you feel, it's about REALITY.
Only because there was an agreement in place between east and west. An agreement which the EU was seen to be breaching that led to instability in the region.
The EU didn't even exist back then. The EU only came into existence in 1992.
Once again like all the retarded lefty twats you're making this political to the UK, when all Farage did was speak the truth. The fact that his predictions came true validates Farage.
NATO was designed to encourage peace, not to provoke wars and make the world a more dangerous place.
Farage has been proven correct.
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 22, 2024 11:30:33 GMT
Thats not what I'm saying at all . The situation was a delicate one with both Russia and the EU trying to get the EU onside . The elected president of Ukraine decided to go with Russia .That led to riots from the pro EU groups which in turn led to Yanukovch being ousted in favour of the pro EU Yushchenko The diplomatic route was one of the status quo ,an independent Ukraine that was in effect a neutral country with regard to east/west political affiliation I guess that each individual poster on these boards will be particularly knowledgeable in particular fields or areas, as I am sure you will be. For me personaly I have always taken a keen interest in modern Ukrainian history. You are absolutely correct that Yanukovych was elected as the President of Ukraine, he was elected on the proimise that he would forge closer ties with the European Union. The so called Coup, which was not a coup, it was a revolution, happened because Yanukovych was going to do the opposite of what he promised during the presidential election campaign, and this incensed the majority of Ukrainians, the rest is history ... Euromaidan etc Well as a follower of Ukraines modern history you will know that the Budapest memorandum signed by Ukraine ,Russia the United states ,the UK and to some degree France and China states apart from respecting Ukraines borders that all should refrain from economic coercion . So no Ukraine did not have 'the right' to join NATO or the EU . They basically signed that away in 1994 |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 22, 2024 11:35:33 GMT
A good job your friends don't feel the same, eh? Or you'd be billy-no-mates. All The Best You posted: -- "So you never once blamed Thatcher or previous Tory governments for things Blair and Brown got wrong? Oh, wait, yes you did, almost weekly."'Almost weekly' in which case you do not have to reference another Forum, with so many examples all you have to do is to post a nice big juicy one. You apparently have plenty to pick from. If you don't Post one then the people who read this thread will know you posted a lie. And you will be Billy-no-mates  If you don't recall the numerous posts you put up blaming Mrs T from everything from burning the toast to having a ''stupid corner shop mentality and being a fascist '' (think I've got that right ) you must have severe cognition issues and should make an urgent appointment with your GP for a memory clinic referral. I sincerely hope that you are no longer driving |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 11:36:10 GMT
Ukraine is not a "buffer country", it is a sovereign state, the same as almost all nations in Europe. In 1991 Russia officialy recognised Ukraine as an independent nation within the borders of what was then Ukraine, including Crimea. Russia at that time will have known the opinions of most Ukrainians, they must have known that closer ties with the EU were on the cards, and people like Gorbachev and Yeltsin accepted this ... Putin did not accept it. Once again, like other posters on here, you are attempting to justify Farage by saying that Ukraine has no right to want to join the European Union because it may upset Putin. As for NATO, there was no desire to join NATO ... UNTIL Russia annexed Crimea and began arming the separatists in The Donbas. Farage is wrong, he is 100% wrong, he cannot accept that as a people and a nation, Ukraine has every right to join both the EU and NATO. Ukraine IS a buffer country and no matter what retarded idealistic bollocks you post it doesn't change that fact. This is not about how you feel, it's about REALITY.
Only because there was an agreement in place between east and west. An agreement which the EU was seen to be breaching that led to instability in the region.
The EU didn't even exist back then. The EU only came into existence in 1992.
Once again like all the retarded lefty twats you're making this political to the UK, when all Farage did was speak the truth. The fact that his predictions came true validates Farage.
NATO was designed to encourage peace, not to provoke wars and make the world a more dangerous place.
Farage has been proven correct.
If there ever was any agreement that Ukraine would not ever join NATO ( and there wasn't ), then that agreement which you claim existed was broken when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Ukraine had a relationship with NATO via bilateral agreement as far back as 1994 as a neutral country, and Ukraine DID NOT seek NATO membership UNTIL it was invaded by Russia in 2014. Finland is a "buffer country", do you believe that the Finish government have any right to join NATO ? What about the Baltic States, they are "buffer countries", should they have not been allowed to join NATO ? Poland is a "buffer country" in so much as it borders Belarus, Russias number 1 puppet state, maybe Poland should have been refused membership of NATO. There never was ever any agreement that Ukraine could not join the European Union or the EEC, and to suggest that there was is quite frankly absurd. This issue has nothing to do with so called "Lefties" or the Left, its an issue which unites the Labour Party with the Conservatives, in full agreement. It unites us with the United States and Europe. Its only those of the extreme Left and the thicko Farage supporters that blame anyone and everyone except Russia. The question is very simple: Do you, or do you not believe that free nations have the right to choose which international organisations and alliances they want to belong to. ? Its Yes or No |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 22, 2024 11:41:53 GMT
Ukraine is not a "buffer country", it is a sovereign state, the same as almost all nations in Europe. In 1991 Russia officialy recognised Ukraine as an independent nation within the borders of what was then Ukraine, including Crimea. Russia at that time will have known the opinions of most Ukrainians, they must have known that closer ties with the EU were on the cards, and people like Gorbachev and Yeltsin accepted this ... Putin did not accept it. Once again, like other posters on here, you are attempting to justify Farage by saying that Ukraine has no right to want to join the European Union because it may upset Putin. As for NATO, there was no desire to join NATO ... UNTIL Russia annexed Crimea and began arming the separatists in The Donbas. Farage is wrong, he is 100% wrong, he cannot accept that as a people and a nation, Ukraine has every right to join both the EU and NATO. Ukraine IS a buffer country and no matter what retarded idealistic bollocks you post it doesn't change that fact. This is not about how you feel, it's about REALITY.
Only because there was an agreement in place between east and west. An agreement which the EU was seen to be breaching that led to instability in the region.
The EU didn't even exist back then. The EU only came into existence in 1992.
Once again like all the retarded lefty twats you're making this political to the UK, when all Farage did was speak the truth. The fact that his predictions came true validates Farage.
NATO was designed to encourage peace, not to provoke wars and make the world a more dangerous place.
Farage has been proven correct.
History shows Farage was correct. Awkward for some. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 11:55:02 GMT
Ukraine IS a buffer country and no matter what retarded idealistic bollocks you post it doesn't change that fact. This is not about how you feel, it's about REALITY.
Only because there was an agreement in place between east and west. An agreement which the EU was seen to be breaching that led to instability in the region.
The EU didn't even exist back then. The EU only came into existence in 1992.
Once again like all the retarded lefty twats you're making this political to the UK, when all Farage did was speak the truth. The fact that his predictions came true validates Farage.
NATO was designed to encourage peace, not to provoke wars and make the world a more dangerous place.
Farage has been proven correct.
History shows Farage was correct. Awkward for some. Very much so, they're literally supporting expansionism and then pretending to be shocked when it leads to war, even though it was made clear numerous times for the last few decades. I can see why many in the USA believe NATO has been abused and treated as an American funded safety net that allows certain fanatical despots in the unelected commission to take the piss.
The EU has responsiblity for starting this war, when those who thought up the economic union did so under the guise that it would prevent war. They must be turning in their graves.
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 22, 2024 12:03:45 GMT
Ukraine IS a buffer country and no matter what retarded idealistic bollocks you post it doesn't change that fact. This is not about how you feel, it's about REALITY.
Only because there was an agreement in place between east and west. An agreement which the EU was seen to be breaching that led to instability in the region.
The EU didn't even exist back then. The EU only came into existence in 1992.
Once again like all the retarded lefty twats you're making this political to the UK, when all Farage did was speak the truth. The fact that his predictions came true validates Farage.
NATO was designed to encourage peace, not to provoke wars and make the world a more dangerous place.
Farage has been proven correct.
If there ever was any agreement that Ukraine would not ever join NATO ( and there wasn't ), then that agreement which you claim existed was broken when Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Ukraine had a relationship with NATO via bilateral agreement as far back as 1994 as a neutral country, and Ukraine DID NOT seek NATO membership UNTIL it was invaded by Russia in 2014. Finland is a "buffer country", do you believe that the Finish government have any right to join NATO ? What about the Baltic States, they are "buffer countries", should they have not been allowed to join NATO ? Poland is a "buffer country" in so much as it borders Belarus, Russias number 1 puppet state, maybe Poland should have been refused membership of NATO. There never was ever any agreement that Ukraine could not join the European Union or the EEC, and to suggest that there was is quite frankly absurd. This issue has nothing to do with so called "Lefties" or the Left, its an issue which unites the Labour Party with the Conservatives, in full agreement. It unites us with the United States and Europe. Its only those of the extreme Left and the thicko Farage supporters that blame anyone and everyone except Russia. The question is very simple: Do you, or do you not believe that free nations have the right to choose which international organisations and alliances they want to belong to. ? Its Yes or No As I mentioned above the Budapest memorandum had a no economic coercion clause in it Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014 was in response to the EU/Ukraine trade association agreement which committed Ukraine to judicial and financial reforms and to converge its policies and legislation to those of the European Union .Ukraine also committed to aligning to EU technical and consumer standards Now if thats not economic coercion I dont know what is |
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