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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 10:02:48 GMT
Nations such as Georgia, Moldova or Armenia are free to approach the EU and apply for membership of the Union, that is if they so choose, if there is a political mandate to do so, and if that would be the will of the people of those nations.
""Saying that we provoked Russia is like saying that if you buy a burglar alarm, in some way you provoke burglars." ( Lord Robertson )
I am sorry, but we ( NATO, the West, the EU ) are on the right side of history, every nation should be free to determine its own alliances, and have the right to live in peace. Putin reckons that he inflicted a war on Ukraine because he did not want NATO any closer to Russia ...... the result of his unprovoked war on Ukraine is now MORE NATO closer to Russia.
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Post by sandypine on Jun 22, 2024 10:06:03 GMT
This is a lie. You regurgitate rubbish all the time. Farage said Putin was to blame. But the EU and NATO expansionism provoked Putin. Lets get just one fact absolutely clear, or straight as they say: The EU and NATO do not go out and canvass nations to join, it works the other way around. To join NATO, a nation approaches NATO and requests membership - Same with the European Union Ever since Ukrainian independence in 1991, it has been a known and well established fact that a majority of Ukrainians want closer ties with Europe, and wish for their country to join the European Union. Farage bases his ridiculous opinions solely upon his hatred of the EU Farage is a Quisling, ( look it up id you dont know what that means ), he claims that "he won" the 2016 referendum on EU membership, but he does not think the same democratic right should be aforded to the Ukrainian people. You cannot defend Farage on this, no one can, because he is 200% out of order I do not think for one minute that the EU sit in splendid isolation waiting for people to apply to join their club I would be surprised if you believed the same. The EU is always in negotiations with countries as regards trading deals and how better to deal with each other and whether or not membership is a possibility. .One could argue to whose advantage either the EU, the country in question or the political and ruling classes in either or both. The same would apply to NATO as history shows that any defensive compact is always seeking to extend and/or any aggressive compact is always seeking to surround. In Russia's position would NATO look like a defensive or expansionist organisation? The story as regards Ukraine's dealings with the EU is pretty tedious stuff suffice to say that not all Ukrainians were willing to join the EU and sever the ties they had with Russia. Their President was freely and fairly elected and his removal during some turmoil was outwith the process of the Constitution as he had to flee. The EU hand, and the US, in this affair was seen by Russia as expansionist and aggressive for both the EU and NATO. It would be nice if it was clear cut with Russia bad, the West as a whole good but that is far too simplistic and ignores the many machinations behind the scenes, so other opinions exist and Farage was always clear on this as the record of his parliamentary speeches clearly shows. As regards democracy the pro Russia President won the democratic process yet was removed effectively undemocratically, admittedly in times of turmoil but then that almost makes it worse. Was there a referendum to join the EU? There was a referendum in Crimea |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 22, 2024 10:10:27 GMT
So Nigel offered an opinion that differs from yours. That hardly makes him delusional.
And, in the unlikely event that you are correct, Ukraine is still not our problem. We are not the world's policeman and nor should we try to be.
NO, its not the fact that Farage has an opinion different to mine Its the fact that Farage has an opinion different to the democratic wish of the President, government, Parliament and people of Ukraine. Clearly, Farage does not believe in either democracy, self determination or the rule of law, the man is dilusional, and this is going to set Reform UK back, and cost them votes. Politicians from both main partys are queuing up to condemn Farage -------------------------------------------- "John Healey, the shadow defence secretary, called the comments “disgraceful”, adding that Farage has “shown that he would rather lick Vladimir Putin’s boot than stand up for the people of Ukraine. That makes him unfit for any political office in our country, let alone leading a serious party in parliament.” The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 10:11:09 GMT
I am shocked, and not shocked at Farage. Any country has the right to self determinationn, whatever it is. The not shocked bit is that that Farage being the antidote to the morass of nonsense this country is, he fouls it up. For gods sake. Reform will be harmed, a lot. I cant vote for a pro Russian as shole. You were never convincing to begin with. |
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Post by buccaneer on Jun 22, 2024 10:20:20 GMT
The EU has already demonstrated its provocative arrogance with borders both in the West (Northern Ireland) and the East (Ukraine) in Europe. It has been expanding eastwards since the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The EU has put itself within spitting distance of Russia and must apportion some part of the responsibility and meddling it has done whilst constructing its regulatory empire. It didn't give a fuck about Russian sensibilities in
Ukraine, like it didn't give a fuck about Unionist sensibilities in Northern Ireland.
With that arrogance comes responsibility on the geopolitical stage.
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Post by see2 on Jun 22, 2024 10:32:29 GMT
NO, its not the fact that Farage has an opinion different to mine Its the fact that Farage has an opinion different to the democratic wish of the President, government, Parliament and people of Ukraine. Clearly, Farage does not believe in either democracy, self determination or the rule of law, the man is dilusional, and this is going to set Reform UK back, and cost them votes. Politicians from both main partys are queuing up to condemn Farage -------------------------------------------- "John Healey, the shadow defence secretary, called the comments “disgraceful”, adding that Farage has “shown that he would rather lick Vladimir Putin’s boot than stand up for the people of Ukraine. That makes him unfit for any political office in our country, let alone leading a serious party in parliament.” The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . The Russian reaction to the Ukrainian's desire for greater trading with the EU began in 2013, as soon as Yanukovych, Russia's man in the Ukraine, refused to sign the papers for greater trading with the EU, despite the offer made to Ukraine about better dealings with Russia. Putin tried to persuade the Ukraine to agree to greater trading with Russia. He saw his arse when they didn't take his offer. This was followed very quickly by the Russian invasion of Crimea Feb 2014. There's nothing special about Farage, anyone with their eye on the ball could have forecasted trouble ahead. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 22, 2024 10:32:49 GMT
So Nigel offered an opinion that differs from yours. That hardly makes him delusional. And, in the unlikely event that you are correct, Ukraine is still not our problem. We are not the world's policeman and nor should we try to be.
NO, its not the fact that Farage has an opinion different to mine Its the fact that Farage has an opinion different to the democratic wish of the President, government, Parliament and people of Ukraine. Farage is looking to be elected to represent people in England - not Ukraine. It is not compulsory for UK politicians to represent the views of foreign countries. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 10:34:19 GMT
NO, its not the fact that Farage has an opinion different to mine Its the fact that Farage has an opinion different to the democratic wish of the President, government, Parliament and people of Ukraine. Clearly, Farage does not believe in either democracy, self determination or the rule of law, the man is dilusional, and this is going to set Reform UK back, and cost them votes. Politicians from both main partys are queuing up to condemn Farage -------------------------------------------- "John Healey, the shadow defence secretary, called the comments “disgraceful”, adding that Farage has “shown that he would rather lick Vladimir Putin’s boot than stand up for the people of Ukraine. That makes him unfit for any political office in our country, let alone leading a serious party in parliament.” The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . In essence, what both you and Farage are suggesting is that when approached by the President of Ukraine on behalf of Parliament and the people, the European Union should have informed the Ukrainians that they could not accept Ukraine as a candidate for membership because ... It may upset President Putin. Sorry, but to put this mildly or politely, do you realise how silly that is ? |
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Post by see2 on Jun 22, 2024 10:41:40 GMT
The EU has already demonstrated its provocative arrogance with borders both in the West (Northern Ireland) and the East (Ukraine) in Europe. It has been expanding eastwards since the fall of the Berlin Wall. The EU has put itself within spitting distance of Russia and must apportion some part of the responsibility and meddling it has done whilst constructing its regulatory empire. It didn't give a fuck about Russian sensibilities in Ukraine, like it didn't give a fuck about Unionist sensibilities in Northern Ireland. With that arrogance comes responsibility on the geopolitical stage. What are you on about? One so called country is in fact the remnants of an Empire, (there never was a country called Russia) now called the Russian Federation. The other is a trading block. All countries have their borders, and AFAIA, all trade areas have their rules and regulations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2024 10:43:51 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VTWKTij684The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . In essence, what both you and Farage are suggesting is that when approached by the President of Ukraine on behalf of Parliament and the people, the European Union should have informed the Uklrainians that they could not accept Ukraine as a candidate for membership because ... It may upset President Putin. Sorry, but to put this mildly or politely, do you realise how silly that is ? If you had a brain and any understanding of history of the region then you wouldn't be making these retarded posts. Ukraine is a buffer country and the EU with NATO were seen to be breaching the agreement that led to the nuclear disarmament of Ukraine. Obviously the EU's expansionist efforts were considered a breach of that agreement. Russia has been telling you nutters this for decades and gave you plenty of warning that you're provoking a war.
This has nothing to do with Farage. All he did was tell you of the situation and what it will lead to, and he was 100% correct.
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 22, 2024 10:44:51 GMT
Oh look - another politician warning that NATO expansion eastwards would be provoking Russia into war...
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 22, 2024 10:45:17 GMT
The EU has already demonstrated its provocative arrogance with borders both in the West (Northern Ireland) and the East (Ukraine) in Europe. It has been expanding eastwards since the fall of the Berlin Wall. The EU has put itself within spitting distance of Russia and must apportion some part of the responsibility and meddling it has done whilst constructing its regulatory empire. It didn't give a fuck about Russian sensibilities in Ukraine, like it didn't give a fuck about Unionist sensibilities in Northern Ireland. With that arrogance comes responsibility on the geopolitical stage. I am thinking of a way that people might understand, but on the other hand I dont wish to be rude to other posters. The EU has expanded - BECAUSE MORE AND MORE NATIONS REQUESTED TO JOIN, it is not because of EU expansionism Per Se. The Republic of Ireland is a part of the EU because the Irish request to join the EEC was accepted, and Ireland joined in 1973 after a Referendum which came out overwhelmingly in favour of joining. The "provocative arrogance" as you put it, is not with the European Union, it is on the part of those nations who decide to apply for membership. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 22, 2024 10:45:22 GMT
...All countries have their borders, and AFAIA, all trade areas have their rules and regulations. LOL, unless they're governed from Brussels. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 22, 2024 10:48:53 GMT
Oh look - another politician warning that NATO expansion eastwards would be provoking Russia into war... The only thing that the Russian invasion of Ukraine achieved was... ... The expansion of NATO. 🙄 |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 22, 2024 10:50:06 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VTWKTij684The video above is of Farage warning the EU in 2014 that their policy of EU expansion into the East and up to Russia's borders would only end in one result . "Stop poking the Russian bear" was indeed a warning and foresight not seen by anyone but Farage . Had the EU listened to anyone that had a different view than their own fantasy of ever greater enlargement maybe the first major war in Europe would have been avoided . It makes the EU claim of keeping the peace in Europe a fucking joke . Im not 100% across the electoral process in Ukraine but there was certainly some EU influence in 2014 when the Pro Russian President Yanukovych was ousted in a coup and a pro EU one Yushchenko was 'elected' amid electoral fraud and the east or Ukraine not being included in the vote . Of course the other parties are using this to attack Farage . Just shows how dumb they are , Farages view has been out for ten years . In essence, what both you and Farage are suggesting is that when approached by the President of Ukraine on behalf of Parliament and the people, the European Union should have informed the Ukrainians that they could not accept Ukraine as a candidate for membership because ... It may upset President Putin. Sorry, but to put this mildly or politely, do you realise how silly that is ? Thats not what I'm saying at all . The situation was a delicate one with both Russia and the EU trying to get the EU onside . The elected president of Ukraine decided to go with Russia .That led to riots from the pro EU groups which in turn led to Yanukovch being ousted in favour of the pro EU Yushchenko The diplomatic route was one of the status quo ,an independent Ukraine that was in effect a neutral country with regard to east/west political affiliation |
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