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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 14:10:44 GMT
So, if there is no need for a further Referendum, why was there a need for the 2016 Referendum? We'd already had a referendum in 1975 to join the EU? Now, yes, I know, we technically joined a Trade Union that morphed into a Political Union. Meaning there were sufficient material changes to our relationship to that Union to warrant another Referendum. Which, necessarily, implies that if there were significant material changes to how the UK interacts with the EU in future there might be sufficient cause for another Referendum. I happen to think that our relationship to, and benefits / liabilities of being in or out of, the EU are so malleable that it would make sense to have further referendums. However, like all popular votes the incumbent party can always choose to hold them at a time that would increase support for their chosen outcome. I would therefore suggest that having fixed term outcomes from these referendums would be the appropriate solution. Maybe just have one every 50 years. All The Best The reason prime minister Cameron thought a referendum was necessary in 2016 was due to pressure from UKIP who at the time were polling 12.7% and gaining ground. Cameron's advisers were of the opinion that a remain vote would win and have the added benefit of killing off UKIP. I'm pleased to say it didn't quite work out that way. We did not have a referendum in 1975 to join the EU. The 1975 referendum asked us if we wanted to remain in the EEC or Common Market which was a none political none centralised free trade area, which is why we voted to remain in the Common Market. We were handed to the EU in 1992 and the reason John (The bastard) Major refused to allow a referendum was because he knew damned well what the result would be. |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 19, 2024 14:15:27 GMT
Latest poll on EU Membership
conducted by Omnisis between 12th and 13th June
Question: Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union ?
It was right to leave ... 554 respondents 43%
It was wrong to leave ... 729 respondents 57%
The last time ANY national poll showed a majority in favour of the decision to Leave was back in 2022, and since that time there have been over 200 polls asking the question.
We have a general election every 5 years
The referendum was 8 years ago
As the older generation dies away, and the younger generation takes their place, there is now a PERMANENT majority in favour of joining the EU.
If democracy is to prevail, then we will rejoing in some form, to that end there can be no question about it.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 14:20:03 GMT
Latest poll on EU Membership conducted by Omnisis between 12th and 13th June Question: Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union ? It was right to leave ... 554 respondents 43% It was wrong to leave ... 729 respondents 57% The last time ANY national poll showed a majority in favour of the decision to Leave was back in 2022, and since that time there have been over 200 polls asking the question. We have a general election every 5 years The referendum was 8 years ago As the older generation dies away, and the younger generation takes their place, there is now a PERMANENT majority in favour of joining the EU. If democracy is to prevail, then we will rejoing in some form, to that end there can be no question about it. You appear to be blissfully unaware that clueless left wing kids, and I was one of them, grow up wise up and become the older generation. |
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Post by ratcliff on Jun 19, 2024 14:23:35 GMT
I said " far right on SOME policies". The Rwanda Policy, knowingly in violation of treaties we signed decades ago and therefore requiring an Act Of Parliament to say "X is actually Y" to get it through, is clearly a Far Right Policy. NOTE: I am NOT opposed to removing Illegal Immigrants, using force if necessary; I am opposed to ineffective and costly white elephants. So please don't think I am labelling it "Far Right" because I appose the removal of immigrants. The ongoing framing of comments in the House to the effect that the Judiciary and Media are biased against Government and therefore need direct government control are clearly Far Right, especially as we have one of the most free and unbiased media landscapes anywhere. and that our Judiciary scores extremely high on implementing the laws as written. Heck, the Conservatives threatened to defund the BBC unless it started toeing the party line. The ever increasing defunding of Public Services and Welfare to farm the former out to the highly costly, and often unsatisfactory in terms of "customer satisfaction" Private Sector is a Far Right wet-dream. All The Best I cant think of any government policy that anyone could reasonably or seriously say was 'far right'. The reason I voted Reform UK is precisely because this government is not a centre right Conservative government. I assume the treaties or treaty you mention is the ECHR, which 75 years ago was worthwhile legislation because back in the late 1940's early 1950's there were millions of displaced people across a war torn Europe. But times change, we have moved on. Anyone with any common sense must realise that the ECHR is no longer fit for purpose. Do you think the architects of the ECHR would approve of it being used by left wing lawyers to stop governments deporting criminals/illegals/undesirables? The ECHR is antiquated outdated legislation that is no longer fit for purpose and should, with a sense of urgency, be repealed. And the sad thing is, behind closed doors most sensible politicians know it. Nor me , in fact alleged media bias comments could easily be labelled communist |
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Post by witchfinder on Jun 19, 2024 14:27:06 GMT
Latest poll on EU Membership conducted by Omnisis between 12th and 13th June Question: Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union ? It was right to leave ... 554 respondents 43% It was wrong to leave ... 729 respondents 57% The last time ANY national poll showed a majority in favour of the decision to Leave was back in 2022, and since that time there have been over 200 polls asking the question. We have a general election every 5 years The referendum was 8 years ago As the older generation dies away, and the younger generation takes their place, there is now a PERMANENT majority in favour of joining the EU. If democracy is to prevail, then we will rejoing in some form, to that end there can be no question about it. You appear to be blissfully unaware that clueless left wing kids, and I was one of them, grow up wise up and become the older generation. It does not work like that, the gap between "Stay Out" and "Rejoin" is slowly widening People over 50 in 2016 included a great many people who remember days of Empire, the war years, when Britain was a major power, the Commonwealth and when we were an industrial giant. Younger generations today have different attitudes, a different oulook on life, they are more internationalist and less prejudiced, more accepting and more tolerant. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 14:33:18 GMT
You appear to be blissfully unaware that clueless left wing kids, and I was one of them, grow up wise up and become the older generation. It does not work like that, the gap between "Stay Out" and "Rejoin" is slowly widening People over 50 in 2016 included a great many people who remember days of Empire, the war years, when Britain was a major power, the Commonwealth and when we were an industrial giant. Younger generations today have different attitudes, a different oulook on life, they are more internationalist and less prejudiced, more accepting and more tolerant. Rubbish. Empire indeed, lol. It's hardly a secret that people tend to become more Conservative as they get older. Which is why Starmer wants ballot boxes in schools, to get them while they're young gullible and left wing. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 14:42:02 GMT
Personally I don't think a second referendum will happen, largely because it wont be necessary. Starmer has already said he will renegotiate Brexit, he will be an EU rule taker, he will effectively hand the UK to the EU without the paperwork, so to speak. Which will make a proper centre right Conservative government even more likely in 2029, if not sooner. I don't think you understood the point that I was trying to make, as you've reiterated the same presumption here. You are assuming that EU regulatory alignment would be unpopular. I'm saying not necessarily, as people's views have changed. If we did that in this parliament (and I'm not really thinking it will happen) and there was an upturn in the economy, why would it drive voters to the Tories? I think you are also making the presumption that all Labour supporters are pro EU and all Tories are anti EU. That was never the case anyway. |
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Post by Dogburger on Jun 19, 2024 14:44:14 GMT
Latest poll on EU Membership conducted by Omnisis between 12th and 13th June Question: Do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union ? It was right to leave ... 554 respondents 43% It was wrong to leave ... 729 respondents 57% The last time ANY national poll showed a majority in favour of the decision to Leave was back in 2022, and since that time there have been over 200 polls asking the question. We have a general election every 5 years The referendum was 8 years ago As the older generation dies away, and the younger generation takes their place, there is now a PERMANENT majority in favour of joining the EU. If democracy is to prevail, then we will rejoing in some form, to that end there can be no question about it. And as I keep saying which nobody on the pro EU side has ever answered is that the wrong question is being asked . It doesn't matter if people think we were wrong to leave the EU ,it doesn't matter if 100% of people think that way . What is going to matter is when and if the time comes what will you be voting to join and under what conditions ? In say 10 years time the EU is going to look a lot different to the one we thankfully left . Who in their right mind is going to vote to give up our currency , our foreign policy , be forced to take immigration quotas ,a return of cheap foreign labour this time likely from the Baltics , Ukraine ,Moldova and so on . No rebate , less fishing quotas ect . I think you are going to need one hell of a salesman |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 14:46:54 GMT
Younger generations today have different attitudes, a different oulook on life, they are more internationalist and less prejudiced, more accepting and more tolerant. You almost seem to be implying that this forum is full of old men who don't like darkies in their local Tesco. Quite frankly I'd agree. The problem is that these people think that they represent everyone, when they don't. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 14:51:57 GMT
And as I keep saying which nobody on the pro EU side has ever answered is that the wrong question is being asked . It doesn't matter if people think we were wrong to leave the EU ,it doesn't matter if 100% of people think that way . What is going to matter is when and if the time comes what will you be voting to join and under what conditions ? In say 10 years time the EU is going to look a lot different to the one we thankfully left . Who in their right mind is going to vote to give up our currency , our foreign policy , be forced to take immigration quotas ,a return of cheap foreign labour this time likely from the Baltics , Ukraine ,Moldova and so on . No rebate , less fishing quotas ect . I think you are going to need one hell of a salesman That's true, but doesn't one follow the other? We had the referendum in 2016 as a result of public pressure. Couldn't that same public pressure leas to another referendum? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 19, 2024 14:53:38 GMT
Younger generations today have different attitudes, a different oulook on life, they are more internationalist and less prejudiced, more accepting and more tolerant. You almost seem to be implying that this forum is full of old men who don't like darkies in their local Tesco. Quite frankly I'd agree. The problem is that these people think that they represent everyone, when they don't. Translates as: "Everyone I disagree with is old and racist".  |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 14:55:54 GMT
You almost seem to be implying that this forum is full of old men who don't like darkies in their local Tesco. Quite frankly I'd agree. The problem is that these people think that they represent everyone, when they don't. Translates as: "Everyone I disagree with is old and racist". Nope. Translates as a lot of people on this board are old and racist. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 19, 2024 14:57:10 GMT
Translates as: "Everyone I disagree with is old and racist". Nope. Translates as a lot of people on this board are old and racist. LOL! You mean all the ones you disagree with. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jun 19, 2024 14:57:15 GMT
Translates as: "Everyone I disagree with is old and racist". Nope. Translates as a lot of people on this board are old and racist. says andrea who calls the Irish living in the UK foreigners ....... LOL |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 15:02:16 GMT
Nope. Translates as a lot of people on this board are old and racist. LOL! You mean all the ones you disagree with. Nope. You're not old and racist, but I disagree with you on most things. |
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