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Post by sheepy on Jun 19, 2024 11:05:31 GMT
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 19, 2024 11:29:49 GMT
He'll expose the others as a bunch of self-serving imbeciles.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 19, 2024 12:11:47 GMT
He should not be de-platformed. He needs to be given a platform, even if just to show how odious and irresponsible he is. The attempt to de-platform Nick Griffin (BNP is anyone can still remember them) from BBC's Question Time saw an upsurge in BNP Membership and Support; but that did not follow through to any significant electoral gains as the oxygen of exposure showed him up to to be the ideological clown he was. Farage could do with the same. All The Best |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 12:17:21 GMT
You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. Leaving the EU or 'Brexit' was quite obviously more popular than remaining in the EU. As a point of interest, the result in England where 90% of the UK electorate live was 53.5% leave - 46.5% remain. Make no mistake, the popular choice was 'leave'. Remainiacs who claim that support for Brexit is falling, has fallen, is about to fall, was always going to happen. It's meaningless. It's nothing more than bitter remainiacs refusing to accept democracy. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 19, 2024 12:22:34 GMT
You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. Leaving the EU or 'Brexit' was quite obviously more popular than remaining in the EU. As a point of interest, the result in England where 90% of the UK electorate live was 53.5% leave - 46.5% remain. Make no mistake, the popular choice was 'leave'. Remainiacs who claim that support for Brexit is falling, has fallen, is about to fall, was always going to happen. It's meaningless. It's nothing more than bitter remainiacs refusing to accept democracy. No, the point is that defending Brexit now does not have the same effect as it did in 2016. That's just basic math. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 12:28:06 GMT
Leaving the EU or 'Brexit' was quite obviously more popular than remaining in the EU. As a point of interest, the result in England where 90% of the UK electorate live was 53.5% leave - 46.5% remain. Make no mistake, the popular choice was 'leave'. Remainiacs who claim that support for Brexit is falling, has fallen, is about to fall, was always going to happen. It's meaningless. It's nothing more than bitter remainiacs refusing to accept democracy. No, the point is that defending Brexit now does not have the same effect as it did in 2016. That's just basic math. Did you give a toss about democracy when John (The bastard) Major handed the UK to the EU without a referendum? And in this country we say 'maths'. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 19, 2024 12:31:46 GMT
You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. Leaving the EU or 'Brexit' was quite obviously more popular than remaining in the EU. As a point of interest, the result in England where 90% of the UK electorate live was 53.5% leave - 46.5% remain. Make no mistake, the popular choice was 'leave'. Remainiacs who claim that support for Brexit is falling, has fallen, is about to fall, was always going to happen. It's meaningless. It's nothing more than bitter remainiacs refusing to accept democracy. While I agree with you I would be interested to know where you stand on the issue of there potentially being another EU Referendum asking the British Voters if they want to rejoin the EU? All The Best |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 12:32:38 GMT
Because they are already as far right as they can go one some policies without becoming fascist dictators. All The Best Anyone who thinks this government is far right does not deserve to be taken seriously. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 12:49:54 GMT
Leaving the EU or 'Brexit' was quite obviously more popular than remaining in the EU. As a point of interest, the result in England where 90% of the UK electorate live was 53.5% leave - 46.5% remain. Make no mistake, the popular choice was 'leave'. Remainiacs who claim that support for Brexit is falling, has fallen, is about to fall, was always going to happen. It's meaningless. It's nothing more than bitter remainiacs refusing to accept democracy. While I agree with you I would be interested to know where you stand on the issue of there potentially being another EU Referendum asking the British Voters if they want to rejoin the EU? All The Best If we had another or second referendum and the majority voted to re-join the EU, how would remainers feel about inevitable calls for another, or a third referendum? I very much suspect that if we do at some point have another referendum and the majority voted to re-join, remainers would immediately insist it was a final never to be repeated referendum. However, if the majority in a second referendum voted for Brexit again, for independence rather than the EU, then I'm confident remainers would demand a third referendum. Personally I don't think a second referendum will happen, largely because it wont be necessary. Starmer has already said he will renegotiate Brexit, he will be an EU rule taker, he will effectively hand the UK to the EU without the paperwork, so to speak. Which will make a proper centre right Conservative government even more likely in 2029, if not sooner. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 19, 2024 13:27:30 GMT
Because they are already as far right as they can go one some policies without becoming fascist dictators. All The Best Anyone who thinks this government is far right does not deserve to be taken seriously. I said " far right on SOME policies". The Rwanda Policy, knowingly in violation of treaties we signed decades ago and therefore requiring an Act Of Parliament to say "X is actually Y" to get it through, is clearly a Far Right Policy. NOTE: I am NOT opposed to removing Illegal Immigrants, using force if necessary; I am opposed to ineffective and costly white elephants. So please don't think I am labelling it "Far Right" because I appose the removal of immigrants. The ongoing framing of comments in the House to the effect that the Judiciary and Media are biased against Government and therefore need direct government control are clearly Far Right, especially as we have one of the most free and unbiased media landscapes anywhere. and that our Judiciary scores extremely high on implementing the laws as written. Heck, the Conservatives threatened to defund the BBC unless it started toeing the party line. The ever increasing defunding of Public Services and Welfare to farm the former out to the highly costly, and often unsatisfactory in terms of "customer satisfaction" Private Sector is a Far Right wet-dream. All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 19, 2024 13:31:23 GMT
No, the point is that defending Brexit now does not have the same effect as it did in 2016. That's just basic math. Did you give a toss about democracy when John (The bastard) Major handed the UK to the EU without a referendum? And in this country we say 'maths'. But despite Andy's reluctance to accept 52% as decisive he'll undoubtedly be happy to accept a Labour government elected by just 30% of the electorate.
It's a funny old game.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 19, 2024 13:36:36 GMT
While I agree with you I would be interested to know where you stand on the issue of there potentially being another EU Referendum asking the British Voters if they want to rejoin the EU? All The Best If we had another or second referendum and the majority voted to re-join the EU, how would remainers feel about inevitable calls for another, or a third referendum? I very much suspect that if we do at some point have another referendum and the majority voted to re-join, remainers would immediately insist it was a final never to be repeated referendum. However, if the majority in a second referendum voted for Brexit again, for independence rather than the EU, then I'm confident remainers would demand a third referendum. Personally I don't think a second referendum will happen, largely because it wont be necessary. Starmer has already said he will renegotiate Brexit, he will be an EU rule taker, he will effectively hand the UK to the EU without the paperwork, so to speak. Which will make a proper centre right Conservative government even more likely in 2029, if not sooner. So, if there is no need for a further Referendum, why was there a need for the 2016 Referendum? We'd already had a referendum in 1975 to join the EU? Now, yes, I know, we technically joined a Trade Union that morphed into a Political Union. Meaning there were sufficient material changes to our relationship to that Union to warrant another Referendum. Which, necessarily, implies that if there were significant material changes to how the UK interacts with the EU in future there might be sufficient cause for another Referendum. I happen to think that our relationship to, and benefits / liabilities of being in or out of, the EU are so malleable that it would make sense to have further referendums. However, like all popular votes the incumbent party can always choose to hold them at a time that would increase support for their chosen outcome. I would therefore suggest that having fixed term outcomes from these referendums would be the appropriate solution. Maybe just have one every 50 years. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 19, 2024 13:37:39 GMT
Did you give a toss about democracy when John (The bastard) Major handed the UK to the EU without a referendum? And in this country we say 'maths'. But despite Andy's reluctance to accept 52% as decisive he'll undoubtedly be happy to accept a Labour government elected by just 30% of the electorate.
It's a funny old game.
What percentage of the UK population voted for Johnson or Truss or Sunak to be PM? Less than 0.001% All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 19, 2024 13:41:29 GMT
But despite Andy's reluctance to accept 52% as decisive he'll undoubtedly be happy to accept a Labour government elected by just 30% of the electorate.
It's a funny old game.
What percentage of the UK population voted for Johnson or Truss or Sunak to be PM? Less than 0.001% All The Best Which has precisely fuck all to do with anything. 
All the breast, tit.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 19, 2024 13:59:15 GMT
Anyone who thinks this government is far right does not deserve to be taken seriously. I said " far right on SOME policies". The Rwanda Policy, knowingly in violation of treaties we signed decades ago and therefore requiring an Act Of Parliament to say "X is actually Y" to get it through, is clearly a Far Right Policy. NOTE: I am NOT opposed to removing Illegal Immigrants, using force if necessary; I am opposed to ineffective and costly white elephants. So please don't think I am labelling it "Far Right" because I appose the removal of immigrants. The ongoing framing of comments in the House to the effect that the Judiciary and Media are biased against Government and therefore need direct government control are clearly Far Right, especially as we have one of the most free and unbiased media landscapes anywhere. and that our Judiciary scores extremely high on implementing the laws as written. Heck, the Conservatives threatened to defund the BBC unless it started toeing the party line. The ever increasing defunding of Public Services and Welfare to farm the former out to the highly costly, and often unsatisfactory in terms of "customer satisfaction" Private Sector is a Far Right wet-dream. All The Best I cant think of any government policy that anyone could reasonably or seriously say was 'far right'. The reason I voted Reform UK is precisely because this government is not a centre right Conservative government. I assume the treaties or treaty you mention is the ECHR, which 75 years ago was worthwhile legislation because back in the late 1940's early 1950's there were millions of displaced people across a war torn Europe. But times change, we have moved on. Anyone with any common sense must realise that the ECHR is no longer fit for purpose. Do you think the architects of the ECHR would approve of it being used by left wing lawyers to stop governments deporting criminals/illegals/undesirables? The ECHR is antiquated outdated legislation that is no longer fit for purpose and should, with a sense of urgency, be repealed. And the sad thing is, behind closed doors most sensible politicians know it. |
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