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Post by Red Rackham on Jun 17, 2024 23:09:02 GMT
The Tory Party was always a moderate "Centre Right" political party BEFORE Margaret Thatcher, people like Edward Heath, Alec Douglas Hume and Harold MacMillan were centre right and moderates. The Conservative Party always was a centre right political party, not a "right wing" political party. Starmers concilliatory moves towards the EU will only improve the British economy, there is talk of Starmer resurrecting Theresa May's "Chequers Plan" which would harmonise UK regulation with EU regulation, thereby making trade between us easier and with less red tape .. thats got to be good. The Labour Party is indifferent to immigration, they recognise the many benefits that immigrants have brought to this country, but they believe that immigration numbers are too high, and propose to reduce the numbers. Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 18, 2024 6:47:51 GMT
The Tory Party was always a moderate "Centre Right" political party BEFORE Margaret Thatcher, people like Edward Heath, Alec Douglas Hume and Harold MacMillan were centre right and moderates. The Conservative Party always was a centre right political party, not a "right wing" political party. Starmers concilliatory moves towards the EU will only improve the British economy, there is talk of Starmer resurrecting Theresa May's "Chequers Plan" which would harmonise UK regulation with EU regulation, thereby making trade between us easier and with less red tape .. thats got to be good. The Labour Party is indifferent to immigration, they recognise the many benefits that immigrants have brought to this country, but they believe that immigration numbers are too high, and propose to reduce the numbers. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. Center Right AND Centre Left ARE moderate positions. So stop pretending that you understand political differences. Blair's "Third Way" covered all political positions but gradually to a lesser degree as peoples politics strayed into the far left and the far right positions. If Starmer was actually just Corbyn in disguise the Tories would probably not have split and would probably easily win the next election. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 18, 2024 6:55:48 GMT
If there's a regrouping or realignment of the Right after the general election, which we assume will involve Reform UK + many Tories, what will happen to the more traditional Tories, Libertarians and moderates within the Conservative Party, who will be very unlikely to associate themselves with Reform UK. ? The Tory Party in its entirety will not lurch further to the right, the truth is that the party will fracture or split. Could dissafected Tories join the Lib Dems or even Labour ?, might they try to form a new party. What if the moderates and one nation conservatives fight off a lurch to the right and manage to keep the party more or less as it is, what would the likes of Liz Truss and other right wingers then do ? (if they retain their seats). It's not a case of 'if' there's a realignment of the right, it's a 22 carat diamond encrusted guarantee. It's already happening. Sadly the Tories, for some inexplicable reason, failed to realise that two centrist parties in a two party system was never going to work and after years in office they were always going to be the fall guys. The current Tory party cannot lurch 'further' to the right for two reasons: They are currently centrist so moving to the right would be a move to the right, not a 'lurch' further right. And secondly, there could never be a move to the centre right with the current imposters of the parliamentary conservative party the majority of whom are posing as Tory MP's who will inevitably move to the Lab/Lib dare I say, Green parties, and after five years of Starmers pro EU, pro immigration, pro net zero Labour government, I imagine a centre right Tory government will be a shoo in. A price worth paying? Not really, but if that what it takes... Because they are already as far right as they can go one some policies without becoming fascist dictators. All The Best |
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Post by see2 on Jun 18, 2024 6:56:22 GMT
1. Rightist denigration, again. 2. I asked what happened to UKIP, you ignored the question because you don't like the answer. 3. I am a realistic objective individual so neither of what you offer or which your sad Rightist mind can understand. 1 and 2. UKIP achieved their aim and effectively melted away as they were always seen to be a single aim party. They then became a fringe party with all the attendant problems that that entails. 3 Objectivity is a rare attribute I think the last part of the sentence at 3 kind of indicates a lack of objectivity. 1 and 2. Well at least you answered the question. 3. It was clearly objective to recognise and to reject the insulting Rightist options offered. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 18, 2024 6:57:28 GMT
Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. Center Right AND Centre Left ARE moderate positions. So stop pretending that you understand political differences. Blair's "Third Way" covered all political positions but gradually to a lesser degree as peoples politics strayed into the far left and the far right positions. If Starmer was actually just Corbyn in disguise the Tories would probably not have split and would probably easily win the next election. Blair's Third Way was the same as Blair - a huge con to keep Blair's snout in the trough and lining his own pockets. All The Best |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 18, 2024 7:01:05 GMT
It's not a case of 'if' there's a realignment of the right, it's a 22 carat diamond encrusted guarantee. It's already happening. Sadly the Tories, for some inexplicable reason, failed to realise that two centrist parties in a two party system was never going to work and after years in office they were always going to be the fall guys. The current Tory party cannot lurch 'further' to the right for two reasons: They are currently centrist so moving to the right would be a move to the right, not a 'lurch' further right. And secondly, there could never be a move to the centre right with the current imposters of the parliamentary conservative party the majority of whom are posing as Tory MP's who will inevitably move to the Lab/Lib dare I say, Green parties, and after five years of Starmers pro EU, pro immigration, pro net zero Labour government, I imagine a centre right Tory government will be a shoo in. A price worth paying? Not really, but if that what it takes... Because they are already as far right as they can go one some policies without becoming fascist dictators. All The Best LOL!  |
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Post by andrewbrown on Jun 18, 2024 7:01:44 GMT
The Tory Party was always a moderate "Centre Right" political party BEFORE Margaret Thatcher, people like Edward Heath, Alec Douglas Hume and Harold MacMillan were centre right and moderates. The Conservative Party always was a centre right political party, not a "right wing" political party. Starmers concilliatory moves towards the EU will only improve the British economy, there is talk of Starmer resurrecting Theresa May's "Chequers Plan" which would harmonise UK regulation with EU regulation, thereby making trade between us easier and with less red tape .. thats got to be good. The Labour Party is indifferent to immigration, they recognise the many benefits that immigrants have brought to this country, but they believe that immigration numbers are too high, and propose to reduce the numbers. Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 18, 2024 7:03:38 GMT
Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. Center Right AND Centre Left ARE moderate positions. So stop pretending that you understand political differences. Blair's "Third Way" covered all political positions but gradually to a lesser degree as peoples politics strayed into the far left and the far right positions. If Starmer was actually just Corbyn in disguise the Tories would probably not have split and would probably easily win the next election. In all honesty you might think politicians trotting out the same old carp which has now failed them time after time, that they might come up with a few new lines, but nope same old carp. We will pull the wool over your eyes and you will love it. I have heard so much desperate shit in the last few days it is laughable. Nobody believes a word of it. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 18, 2024 7:08:51 GMT
Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. We haven't had Brexit. We haven't taken control of our borders. We're still signed up to a whole raft of EU regs. We're still signed up to the ECHR.
If we're going to be subject to the EU shite then we might as well be members and have some of the benefits. That's where many people, including myself, are now.
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Post by sheepy on Jun 18, 2024 7:09:52 GMT
Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. Only a civil servants opinion, which gave them more power under an EU regime and tens of thousands of made-up jobs. Don't get me wrong, I get that politics is all about feathering one's own nest, but it's for the people nonsense and the greater good, is utter cobblers. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 18, 2024 7:10:20 GMT
Best profile of Farage I have seen so far: youtu.be/LwIa70EDZjE?si=02TV2KJlRa-JLgf9And I voted for Farage or parties that promoted his policies twice; but I - unlike the Tories - am mature enough to admit my mistake. All The Best |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 18, 2024 7:10:53 GMT
You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. We haven't had Brexit. We haven't taken control of our borders. We're still signed up to a whole raft of EU regs. We're still signed up to the ECHR.
If we're going to be subject to the EU shite then we might as well be members and have some of the benefits. That's where many people, including myself, are now.
See a full admittance. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 18, 2024 7:21:26 GMT
You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. We haven't had Brexit. We haven't taken control of our borders. We're still signed up to a whole raft of EU regs. We're still signed up to the ECHR.
If we're going to be subject to the EU shite then we might as well be members and have some of the benefits. That's where many people, including myself, are now.
Such shallow thinking I suppose that's why you post so much Rightest garbage. |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 18, 2024 7:40:31 GMT
It's not a case of 'if' there's a realignment of the right, it's a 22 carat diamond encrusted guarantee. It's already happening. Sadly the Tories, for some inexplicable reason, failed to realise that two centrist parties in a two party system was never going to work and after years in office they were always going to be the fall guys. The current Tory party cannot lurch 'further' to the right for two reasons: They are currently centrist so moving to the right would be a move to the right, not a 'lurch' further right. And secondly, there could never be a move to the centre right with the current imposters of the parliamentary conservative party the majority of whom are posing as Tory MP's who will inevitably move to the Lab/Lib dare I say, Green parties, and after five years of Starmers pro EU, pro immigration, pro net zero Labour government, I imagine a centre right Tory government will be a shoo in. A price worth paying? Not really, but if that what it takes... Because they are already as far right as they can go one some policies without becoming fascist dictators. All The Best Which policies would those be? Once again 'fascist' comes into play as a descriptive political term yet it is never clear what exactly is meant. I always took Fascism to be a dictatorial, domineering, intolerant and authoritarian bureaucratic regime with elements of militarism and race/cultural purity. So which aspects would fit the bill as regards the Tories, I can see the Labour aspects that fit well. |
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Post by sandypine on Jun 18, 2024 7:44:47 GMT
Whoa there, there's no such thing as moderately centre right, or indeed moderately centre left. In this country political parties are traditionally centre left, centrist or centre right. These days progressive lefties are more centrist than traditional Labour politicians, and one nation Tories are more centrist than traditional centre right Conservatives, which has created the cock up we have today. Two centrist parties in a two party system. Never forget that Starmer is not going to win this election because he's any good, or has popular policies. He is going to win this election on apathy, because Sunak's centrist one nation Tories are crap. Starmer is no Blair and after five years of EU loving Starmer, as I said previously, a centre right Conservative government will be a shoo in. That's assuming it doesn't come sooner. You seem to believe that Brexit was a popular idea. It won the referendum 52-48, but having seen it support for it has fallen. Many people who voted for it now regret it, having seen it. So the idea of pivoting towards the EU may well be more popular than you think. Do you think part of that could be the ongoing campaign from Remain organisations who blame any shortfall, inefficiency, hiccup or mistake on Brexit and the same from individuals in the political world who see their project ending in tears? There is something from Goebbels about telling lies and repeating them to make a truth. |
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