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Post by Pacifico on Jun 6, 2024 21:16:00 GMT
An MP is already held to account by the electorate and often quizzed in detail as regards his utterings. Having an official arbiter on what is true and false is a very slippery slope on which to hang one's trust. It will of course be subjective as there are many many lies on a daily basis and there would have to be an assessment of a deliberate lie, an inadvertent lie, a lie told in good faith it was the truth and then to what degree was it a lie. It would end up with politicians saying virtually nothing of any substance, which some are guilty of already and those ones are effectively useless. So, because we get to vote to change our MP once every 5 years they should be allowed to lie to us the other 1,824 days? Truth is NOT subjective: either Sunak told the truth when he claimed Labour would put up taxes by £2000, or he lied. We now know, for a fact, he lied - and that he 100% knew he was lying when he did so.If Labour are not going to put up taxes by £2000 how much are they going to put up taxes by?. To know whether Sunak is lying you need to know the facts - do you? |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 6, 2024 21:23:25 GMT
So, because we get to vote to change our MP once every 5 years they should be allowed to lie to us the other 1,824 days? Truth is NOT subjective: either Sunak told the truth when he claimed Labour would put up taxes by £2000, or he lied. We now know, for a fact, he lied - and that he 100% knew he was lying when he did so.If Labour are not going to put up taxes by £2000 how much are they going to put up taxes by?. To know whether Sunak is lying you need to know the facts - do you? Well, worst case scenario, based on Tory Party assumptions was that Tax would increase by £500. Sunak lied at least twice: once when he claimed the figures were civil service figures (despite being told that because so much of it was based upon Tory party assumptions, the Civil Service would not put their name to the figures; and then when he made the claim of £2000. Details here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyrredd71z0o Long and short of it is that Sunak lied. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 6, 2024 21:31:17 GMT
If Labour are not going to put up taxes by £2000 how much are they going to put up taxes by?. To know whether Sunak is lying you need to know the facts - do you? Well, worst case scenario, based on Tory Party assumptions was that Tax would increase by £500. Sunak lied at least twice: once when he claimed the figures were civil service figures (despite being told that because so much of it was based upon Tory party assumptions, the Civil Service would not put their name to the figures; and then when he made the claim of £2000. Details here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyrredd71z0o Long and short of it is that Sunak lied.
All The Best How do you know he lied if you have no idea of what is going to happen? I ask again - how much are Labour going to increase taxes by if not this £2000? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jun 6, 2024 23:20:41 GMT
Sadly, NullaVeritas is a binary thinker who believes that anything that doesn't conform to his narrow world view is a lie.
Which is exactly why I call him NullaVeritas.
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Post by jonksy on Jun 7, 2024 1:21:43 GMT
Sadly, NullaVeritas is a binary thinker who believes that anything that doesn't conform to his narrow world view is a lie. Which is exactly why I call him NullaVeritas. You could even double that up (nulla-nulla) as solid as a block or as thick as 2 short planks... |
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Post by see2 on Jun 9, 2024 18:39:40 GMT
Well, worst case scenario, based on Tory Party assumptions was that Tax would increase by £500. Sunak lied at least twice: once when he claimed the figures were civil service figures (despite being told that because so much of it was based upon Tory party assumptions, the Civil Service would not put their name to the figures; and then when he made the claim of £2000. Details here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyrredd71z0o Long and short of it is that Sunak lied.
All The Best How do you know he lied if you have no idea of what is going to happen? I ask again - how much are Labour going to increase taxes by if not this £2000? If you have any facts, then you tell us. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jun 9, 2024 20:08:48 GMT
So, because we get to vote to change our MP once every 5 years they should be allowed to lie to us the other 1,824 days? Truth is NOT subjective: either Sunak told the truth when he claimed Labour would put up taxes by £2000, or he lied. We now know, for a fact, he lied - and that he 100% knew he was lying when he did so.If Labour are not going to put up taxes by £2000 how much are they going to put up taxes by?. To know whether Sunak is lying you need to know the facts - do you? Tax will go up, no matter which puppet you choose to tell you. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 9, 2024 21:38:32 GMT
How do you know he lied if you have no idea of what is going to happen? I ask again - how much are Labour going to increase taxes by if not this £2000? If you have any facts, then you tell us. Well we know that taxes are going to rise. Whether the average family will be worse off under Labour by £1000, £2000 or £3000 is the unknown. Until we see how badly we are worse off nobody knows if Sunak is lying. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 10, 2024 7:31:26 GMT
If you have any facts, then you tell us. Well we know that taxes are going to rise. Whether the average family will be worse off under Labour by £1000, £2000 or £3000 is the unknown. Until we see how badly we are worse off nobody knows if Sunak is lying. Well if it could be (IYO) 1, 2 or three thousand pounds, then being kind to Sunak one could say he isn't lying, just guessing LOL. Even if the tax system remains as it is more people will enter the higher tax bracket, that is the way the Tories have designed it. Does Sunak know just how badly off the economy is? Is that where he gets his £2,000 from? None of those who reviewed the Conservative formed question on tax, have backed Sunak up on his allegation that Labour will put up tax by £2,000. That figure being based upon Tory construed claims anyway. Dishonesty is part of the Tory DNA. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 10, 2024 7:35:15 GMT
Well we know that taxes are going to rise. Whether the average family will be worse off under Labour by £1000, £2000 or £3000 is the unknown. Until we see how badly we are worse off nobody knows if Sunak is lying. Well if it could be (IYO) 1, 2 or three thousand pounds, then being kind to Sunak one could say he isn't lying, just guessing LOL. Even if the tax system remains as it is more people will enter the higher tax bracket, that is the way the Tories have designed it. None of those who reviewed the Conservative formed question on tax, have backed Sunak up on his allegation that Labour will put up tax by £2,000. That figure being based upon Tory construed claims anyway. Dishonesty is part of the Tory DNA. Sunak thinks that taxes under Labour are going up by £2000 - so how much do you think Labour are going to put up taxes by? My view is that £2000 is too low but I want to hear your estimate |
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Post by sheepy on Jun 10, 2024 7:39:58 GMT
Well if it could be (IYO) 1, 2 or three thousand pounds, then being kind to Sunak one could say he isn't lying, just guessing LOL. Even if the tax system remains as it is more people will enter the higher tax bracket, that is the way the Tories have designed it. None of those who reviewed the Conservative formed question on tax, have backed Sunak up on his allegation that Labour will put up tax by £2,000. That figure being based upon Tory construed claims anyway. Dishonesty is part of the Tory DNA. Sunak thinks that taxes under Labour are going up by £2000 - so how much do you think Labour are going to put up taxes by? My view is that £2000 is too low but I want to hear your estimate Purely a deflection though, under the Tories we already have a major cost living crisis and highest taxes, which the Westminster party all voted for by the way, so putting Starmer up as the next squeeze merchant is purely deflection, either way the life has been squeezed out of the plebs. |
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Post by see2 on Jun 10, 2024 7:42:55 GMT
Certainly, the moment you post a proven lie by Starmer etc. Are you telling us you have never come across a lie by any member of the Shadow Cabinet?..  I am not being led by your total deviation. Where lying is clear and provable then criticise it. Do you agree? |
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Post by see2 on Jun 10, 2024 7:45:46 GMT
Well if it could be (IYO) 1, 2 or three thousand pounds, then being kind to Sunak one could say he isn't lying, just guessing LOL. Even if the tax system remains as it is more people will enter the higher tax bracket, that is the way the Tories have designed it. None of those who reviewed the Conservative formed question on tax, have backed Sunak up on his allegation that Labour will put up tax by £2,000. That figure being based upon Tory construed claims anyway. Dishonesty is part of the Tory DNA. Sunak thinks that taxes under Labour are going up by £2000 - so how much do you think Labour are going to put up taxes by? My view is that £2000 is too low but I want to hear your estimate I don't know, neither do you or Sunak. I am not sufficiently informed on taxation to even hazard a guess. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 10, 2024 7:47:12 GMT
If you have any facts, then you tell us. Well we know that taxes are going to rise. Whether the average family will be worse off under Labour by £1000, £2000 or £3000 is the unknown. Until we see how badly we are worse off nobody knows if Sunak is lying. But we do know that under the Conservatives everyone is already £2,200 worse off. And that if the same criteria as the Tories applied to Labour's spending plans were to be applied to the Tory plans they would be a further £3,000 worse off. So, even the made-up Tory guestimate of £2,000 worse off under Labour is a better prospect than they are offering. And Sunak DID lie: he claimed his figures were independent, civil service approved figures, when in fact they were neither. All The Best |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 10, 2024 7:54:17 GMT
Well we know that taxes are going to rise. Whether the average family will be worse off under Labour by £1000, £2000 or £3000 is the unknown. Until we see how badly we are worse off nobody knows if Sunak is lying. But we do know that under the Conservatives everyone is already £2,200 worse off. And that if the same criteria as the Tories applied to Labour's spending plans were to be applied to the Tory plans they would be a further £3,000 worse off. So, even the made-up Tory guestimate of £2,000 worse off under Labour is a better prospect than they are offering. And Sunak DID lie: he claimed his figures were independent, civil service approved figures, when in fact they were neither. All The Best Well most of the figures did come from the Treasury and where the estimates did not come from the Treasury, they came either from other reputable sources – but mainly from Labour themselves. And all political parties do this - Labour have a produced a similar document the “Conservatives’ Interest Rate Rise” which contains some ridiculous lies about Conservative policies. It's all designed to denigrate the opposition. You are getting hung up on trivia. |
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