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Post by Vinny on Oct 11, 2024 10:46:57 GMT
Tony Blair was atrocious. Gordon Brown was even worse.
Biggest mistake they ever made though, was devolution. What an absolute shit show.
End the experiment, go back to what works.
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Post by thomas on Oct 11, 2024 10:58:53 GMT
The moment devolution happened Scottish MPs became Scottish Nationalists in a corrupt balkanised union, balkanised by a Scottish PM and Scottish deputy PM. Also, Business Insider is not a credible source. It's basically some left-wing NY blog known to post factually incorrect material, anonymous sources and click bait. It's why idiots rely on it. For full context:
He was absolutely correct.
brilliant. So you accept it's fair for the Scots to criticise English mps , and vice versa? I have no problem with that , it's you and your pal vinny screaming about racism. For the record I totally agree about brown. You cant have it both ways though. When devolution happened , Westminster would not set up an English only parliament as it would have meant London losing control of scotland , hence why they continued with the farce that is the british commons and all that entailed including the likes of brown becoming uk prime minister. Like I have said repeatedly , your country can change this at a whim. You hold 85 % os seats , the voting power , so why not vote for an English only commons?
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Post by thomas on Oct 11, 2024 11:01:22 GMT
End the experiment, go back to what works. clearly it didnt work otherwise ireland wouldn't have rebelled and left the union , we wouldn't have had decades of troubles and a devolved stormont , alternating between stormont rule and Westminster rule in the 6 counties , and of course 90 years of modern political movement for Scottish home rule , with two referendums on the subject in my lifetime , and a further Scottish independence referendum afterwards.
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Post by Vinny on Oct 11, 2024 11:21:04 GMT
Give everyone who pays for devolution a say on it and scrap it.
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Post by thomas on Oct 11, 2024 11:35:40 GMT
Give everyone who pays for devolution a say on it and scrap it. why , when you won't give us who pay for the union a say on scrapping that?
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Post by morayloon on Oct 12, 2024 23:09:27 GMT
You are disingenuously trying to re-invent your original question here. Just so that we are clear, you actually asked me “ to provide evidence of anti English sentiment from the SNP, from the YES movement, from me [i.e. you] or any other Scottish poster.” In providing the link to Dr Kelly’s paper I have done that in glorious technicolour, even if that isn’t apparent from your shameful lily-livered response. You can’t even acknowledge and call out any of these numerous examples of shocking anti-English racism for what they are. Instead you shamefully try to downplay these blatantly racist behaviours as nothing more than “people, and groups that go too far” and “derogatory remarks”. To be clear, this is nowhere close to going too far or derogatory: it is highly offensive racist behaviour and you expose yourself for what you are by not recognising and calling it out as such. By saying, as you do above, that the SNP only stamps down on instances where anti-English behaviour goes too far is an acknowledgement by you that it tolerates or uses anti-English behaviour that it doesn’t think goes too far. Well, just for the record as neither you nor, apparently, the SNP seem to grasp this point but no anti-English behaviour is acceptable, none of it is not going too far, and all of it points to bigotry or racism. As if not being able to call out and condemn the many examples of vile anti-English behaviour that I presented you with is not bad enough, you incredibly seem to reserve your strongest criticism, not for the behaviours highlighted or for those indulging in such behaviours, but for the messenger for “taking things a bit far” by “searching through Facebook & twitter to find the occasional anti English statement”. It’s as if you believe that these places should be safe havens for racist and bigots. There is nothing occasional about the anti-English bigotry to be found on social media and Dr Kelly was not capturing and reproducing anywhere close to all of the anti-English behaviour he will have identified out there, just some of the most blatantly racist examples. For every one of these shocking examples there will be 100 examples that are not quite so blatant and for every one of those not quite so shocking examples there will be another 100 slightly less shocking examples again and so on down through the scale. Social media, including contributions from you and others on this place, is every bit as valid a place to look for evidence of anti-English racism (or any other variety of racism, for that matter). As I have explained in a recent post (and as you are demonstrating here) you are obviously so exposed to anti-English sentiment and attitudes being routinely displayed within the circles you are involved with that it has become completely normalised behaviour to you, the result being that you can’t recognise anti-English behaviour even when it is right in front of your eyes. I was going to qualify that by saying that you wouldn’t recognise anti-English behaviour apart from the most extreme stuff such as that captured in Dr Kelly’s paper but I am not so sure about that anymore given your response above. BTW - You keep asking me to provide you with something I have already given you. I posted a list of anti-English behaviours and attitudes that you have displayed on here some time ago, following which I explained that your desire to see England’s football team defeated by everybody and anybody it comes up against could be added as further evidence of your anti-English bigotry in action. Obviously, none of those behaviours are as blatant as the examples in Dr Kelly’s paper but that does not mean that they are not anti-English nor mean that you are not guilty of displaying anti-English behaviour on here. As I said, Kelly only came up with one, unnamed , SNP politician. Also, he does not cite, or reference any of the, so called, Nationalist Facebook pages. Any reputable Nationalist page would not have entertained anti-English sentiments. Can you find anything that disproves what I have just said. The big question is, as an academic, why did Kelly feel it necessary to make the allegations without providing sources. You make a lot about anti-English discourse, but perhaps you could tell me (as you were asked, by a certain poster many times on the old forum) why, if the Nationalist movement is, as you say, mired in anti- English bigotry, there are so many English people in the SNP, and the YES movement? Even Prof Ailsa Henderson's survey found that more than a quarter of rUK born people voted YES. Those knowledgeable voters were unable to prevent a NO victory but it is admirable that so many did vote for Scotland to be free of being told what to do by another country c4.iggcdn.com/indiegogo-media-prod-cld/image/upload/c_fill,g_auto,q_auto,f_auto,h_460,w_695/edrux0rwrqg1fpk4gwyj You make a song and dance about alleged SNP anti English feelings, but fail to mention that there is anti-Scottish views alive and kicking (as JD pointed out) in your country (England). The word traitor may have been used by Independistas about Unionists. But, they in turn called us traitors for daring to argue for the break up of their country. And, as for attacking the likes of J K Rowling, we had, from the opposite side, the thugs, who attacked the YESers in Freedom Square, calling Salmond (RIP) a "wanker". www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scottish-referendum-unionists-and-independence-supporters-separated-by-police-in-glasgow-s-george-square-9745333.html also see www.newstatesman.com/politics/2017/04/extreme-scottish-unionists-how-hard-right-has-muscled-independenceAll your so called 'evidence' of bigotry, on my part, don't hold water. What I wrote were facts. I will ask you again, prove that I am anti-English
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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2024 23:54:29 GMT
Abolish devolution. End the racist nightmare for good.
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