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Post by Dogburger on Jul 4, 2024 10:13:37 GMT
Ukraine did not make any move to join NATO .... UNTIL RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINIAN TERRITORY And no matter what Farage says or believes or thinks, if a free and independent country such as Latvia or Poland chooses to belong to the NATO defence pact, it has got absolutely nothing what so ever to do with Vladimir Putin. But not only that, NATO is no threat to Russia, I know that, Farage knows it, and Putin knows it. If Nigel Farage thinks that Putin ought to have a veto on which nations are allowed to join either the EU or NATO, then we have effectively surrendered to him. Boris Johnson is right on Ukraine, as is Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak, Nigel Farage is out of step with history. Rubbish . NATO/Ukraine have had a longstanding association since Ukraine became independent and joined the North Atlantic co-operation council in 1991,various agreements followed leading to NATO affirming in 2008 that the Ukraine would join NATO in the future . Closer ties then followed along with EU trade pacts that moved the Ukraine into the western sphere of influence . Totally agree that that was their choice and all Farage did was warn what the consequences of that would be . Leaving Ukraine as a buffer would have been the diplomatic solution ,thats not surrendering , thats keeping the peace .
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Post by Vinny on Jul 4, 2024 10:30:31 GMT
Ukraine did not make any move to join NATO .... UNTIL RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINIAN TERRITORY And no matter what Farage says or believes or thinks He thinks Ukraine need to join NATO in order to end this war and get their land back. When you get a moment watch the interview. But NATO did offer a path to membership in 2008 and Putin made threats then. www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/04/nato.russiawww.kommersant.ru/doc/877224
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Post by witchfinder on Jul 4, 2024 10:37:20 GMT
Ukraine did not make any move to join NATO .... UNTIL RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINIAN TERRITORY And no matter what Farage says or believes or thinks, if a free and independent country such as Latvia or Poland chooses to belong to the NATO defence pact, it has got absolutely nothing what so ever to do with Vladimir Putin. But not only that, NATO is no threat to Russia, I know that, Farage knows it, and Putin knows it. If Nigel Farage thinks that Putin ought to have a veto on which nations are allowed to join either the EU or NATO, then we have effectively surrendered to him. Boris Johnson is right on Ukraine, as is Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak, Nigel Farage is out of step with history. Rubbish . NATO/Ukraine have had a longstanding association since Ukraine became independent and joined the North Atlantic co-operation council in 1991,various agreements followed leading to NATO affirming in 2008 that the Ukraine would join NATO in the future . Closer ties then followed along with EU trade pacts that moved the Ukraine into the western sphere of influence . Totally agree that that was their choice and all Farage did was warn what the consequences of that would be . Leaving Ukraine as a buffer would have been the diplomatic solution ,thats not surrendering , thats keeping the peace . The North Atlantic Co-operation Council is not NATO, and Russia is a member of the NACC President Yanukovych continued with Ukraine s commitment to neutrality, but with co-operation with both Russia and NATO, the post revolution government also continued the same policy until August 2014, when Russian forces were confirmed to be inside Ukraine's Donbas region, aiding and supplying terrorist separatists. It was at that point that Ukraine decided to abandon its neutrality and apply for NATO membership In effect, what Farage believes is that a neutral and inoffensive nation cannot be allowed to defend itself, in case it upsets his hero Vladimir Putin.
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Post by witchfinder on Jul 4, 2024 10:42:41 GMT
This is not a question of "Chicken Or Egg" which came first
Russia invaded Ukrainian territory - followed by Ukraine applying for NATO membership, it was not the other way around.
Farage has no argument, he has not a leg to stand on, free nations who pose absolutely no threat to anyone, do have the right to defend themselves against unwarranted aggression, and that does include applying for membership of NATO.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 4, 2024 10:47:10 GMT
President Yuschenko was the first to seek NATO membership (in 2008). After all Putin did try to kill him in 2004. www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_37750.htmwww.kommersant.ru/doc/877224And if Yanukovych hadn't gotten in in 2010, the Black Sea Fleet would have been asked to leave Sevastapol by 2017. The Kharkiv Pact extended the lease until 2047. After Yanukovych faced impeachment Putin attacked Ukraine and has been terrorising them for ten years. Nigel Farage is now saying Ukraine need to join NATO. Arm Ukraine to the teeth and boot out the invaders. Give Ukraine NATO membership. And, eventually, when Putin is gone and Russia becomes a democracy, free from the corruption of the Putin era, offer Russia NATO membership too.
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Post by aristaeus on Jul 4, 2024 11:21:37 GMT
Got a bottle of wine ready to celebrate the Tories getting kicked out. I might even upgrade to champagne if Nigel Far-right fails to win Clacton.
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Post by Bentley on Jul 4, 2024 11:58:11 GMT
Ukraine did not make any move to join NATO .... UNTIL RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINIAN TERRITORY And no matter what Farage says or believes or thinks, if a free and independent country such as Latvia or Poland chooses to belong to the NATO defence pact, it has got absolutely nothing what so ever to do with Vladimir Putin. But not only that, NATO is no threat to Russia, I know that, Farage knows it, and Putin knows it. If Nigel Farage thinks that Putin ought to have a veto on which nations are allowed to join either the EU or NATO, then we have effectively surrendered to him. Boris Johnson is right on Ukraine, as is Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak, Nigel Farage is out of step with history. Nice argument for the college bar but in the real world Russia saw the ‘ westernisation ‘ of countries previously in its sphere of influence as a threat. He was no different and acted no different than the US did in central and South America when it saw countries within its sphere of influence moving outside . It’s a ‘ Putin doctrine ‘ in the same vein as the US ‘ Monroe doctrine’. It makes no difference whether you think it’s fair or not .
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 4, 2024 12:10:03 GMT
Got a bottle of wine ready to celebrate the Tories getting kicked out. I might even upgrade to champagne if Nigel Far-right fails to win Clacton. Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol.
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Post by aristaeus on Jul 4, 2024 12:28:39 GMT
Got a bottle of wine ready to celebrate the Tories getting kicked out. I might even upgrade to champagne if Nigel Far-right fails to win Clacton. Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol. I'd rather be a 'poof' than a racist and homophobe.
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Post by aristaeus on Jul 4, 2024 12:32:51 GMT
So what are people's majority predictions? I'm going for a 206 seat majority for Labour.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 4, 2024 12:35:03 GMT
Got a bottle of wine ready to celebrate the Tories getting kicked out. I might even upgrade to champagne if Nigel Far-right fails to win Clacton. Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol. I'll be celebrating with beer after Nigel Farage (who is actually centre-right to those of us on planet Earth) does win Clacton.
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Post by Vinny on Jul 4, 2024 12:38:13 GMT
So what are people's majority predictions? I'm going for a 206 seat majority for Labour. Gloomy aren't you? I predict Labour will get a majority of seats but their vote will be similar to what they got in 2019. It's not that Labour are loved, it's just that Partygate casts a long shadow.
A lot of Conservative voters have gone over to Reform. The result will be a Labour majority, but with some scrutiny from the centre right.
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Post by johnofgwent on Jul 4, 2024 12:47:00 GMT
Got a bottle of wine ready to celebrate the Tories getting kicked out. I might even upgrade to champagne if Nigel Far-right fails to win Clacton. Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol. I have a bottle of lagavulin ready to toast the SNP getting a kicking. And a bottle of Spitfire (come on, what else could possibly serve the purpose) for the Clacton On Sea result,
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Post by aristaeus on Jul 4, 2024 12:56:21 GMT
Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol. I'll be celebrating with beer after Nigel Farage (who is actually centre-right to those of us on planet Earth) does win Clacton. Farage centre-right??? You need to stop smoking crack my dude. Centre right would be John Major or Angela Merkel Reform is populist radical right blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/its-a-mistake-to-call-reform-uk-far-right/
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Post by Red Rackham on Jul 4, 2024 12:57:35 GMT
Wine! LOL you poof. If you're going to celebrate do it properly, get a few pints of wife beater down yer neck. Wine indeed, lol. I'd rather be a 'poof' than a racist and homophobe. LOL, calm down dear, you'll spill your pinot down that pretty dress.
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