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Post by Vinny on May 31, 2024 8:47:01 GMT
Ion thrusters do not provide anti gravity, wormholes or interdimensional travel.
Evidence for anti gravity, wormholes or interdimensional travel, and the mass / energy requirements for a machine to achieve it rather than just "magic".
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Post by piglet on May 31, 2024 9:11:04 GMT
Who cares about interdimensional travel, time travel or wormholes, getting from the earth to the moon or Mars in an hour would be good. It would open up countless oppurtunities, resources for any next step. Imagine mining the moon, getting resources elsewhere would give us the oppurtunity to turn all of the earth into a garden.
Vinny and pro, your not addressing my points, why do you assume you know all there is to know?
That we can go no further? That there is nothing more to know, learn, that there are moree laws to discover, laws that will provide us with light or sub light travel. Can you imagine mining the Ort cloud? and all it will take in travel time is an afternoon? Like going from Cambridge to Brum?
Bob Lazar, the bloke who was in area 51 says that there is an element that allows such travel, the spaceships at area 51 exist.
The minute human kind stops research, its doomed, its like standing on a beach in west wales and giving up on crossing the atlantic.
Thank god there are people not doing that. The argument that because we dont know....we dont know how to travel at light speed or sub light speed, therefore we should not try is UTTERLY ridiculous. Or that our current knowledge does not indicate it.
Not long ago steam trains did not exist because we didnt have the tech. I cant believe im saying this, something so simple, yet vinny and pro will again bat against it.
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Post by Vinny on May 31, 2024 20:09:06 GMT
I don't know all there is to know, but I do know how the scientific method of research and testing goes.
And I do know about the laws of Conservation of energy. To get something out, you need something in.
There's very real practicalities that are not being addressed by Dubdrifter.
If you emit radiation, at what frequency, what intensity, and is it lethal to the pilot? There's a lot of wishful thinking but no practical explanations for how to do anything.
All he had to say was I don't know.
I have positioned myself as the questioner, someone asking for evidence.
I am asking to be convinced but I am not being given anything to be convinced by.
And when I point out the lack of evidence, I receive more conspiracy theories.
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 1, 2024 0:22:49 GMT
Not long ago steam trains did not exist because we didnt have the tech. I cant believe im saying this, something so simple, yet vinny and pro will again bat against it. Building an energy inefficient steam engine, within a closed system, that only needs to travel between 2 fixed points, and which creates no significantly harmful emissions that are immediately detrimental to the user, is several dozen orders of magnitude simpler that what is being discussed here. You are, in effect comparing using a super computer to add 1 + 1 and getting the result 2 (steam engine), to asking someone with dyscalculia to solve Fermat's Last Theorem in his head (FTL travel). There is NOTHING at all even remotely simple about the things Dubs is offering absolutely NO SCIENCE WHATSOEVER to explain. We are not batting against the idea of FTL Travel. We are batting against the piss-poor, actually non-existent, job Dubs is doing to addressing the real issues of FTL travel; he is showing no science, just fairy-tale, bad science-fiction, conspiracy bullshit. Then when called out on it claims the "Deep State" (which by the way he has NOT shown even exists) may have deleted all of the evidence. They didn't you know; there never was any such evidence, that is the reason Dubs can't link to it. I have a friend who obtained a 1st in Theoretical Physics & Mathematics at Oxford (guy is a genuine genius), he and I share a love of what is known as "hard sci-fi" (science fiction that works as closely as possible with the known science). He estimates, that at our current (vastly accelerated because of emergent AI) pace of learning about bleeding-edge physics we are about 500 to 1,000 years away from getting close to FTL travel - that is how far it is beyond anything we understand about how the universe works. Pretty much everything we thought we knew about science, and all the "progress" we made in science, prior to the Atomic Era, is irrelevant to our understanding of, and quest for, Interstellar Travel. Talking about Steam Engines in the same breath as FTL is like comparing the intellect of a single-cell creature to that of 180 IQ super-genius; they are not really comparable in any meaningful way. Oh, and remember, to get to the Steam Engine took about 4,700 years of human scientific discovery. All The Best |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 1, 2024 6:37:03 GMT
And Dub has run away from the challenge again.
If he returns it will involve more YouTube rubbish, or cartoons rather than scientific equations.
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Post by piglet on Jun 1, 2024 8:41:23 GMT
To state the obvious, no we dont know how to travel fast, yet. To use steam trains as an example, going ten miles an hour in 1832 or whenever was a revolution, that you could get from Manchester to Liverpool in the same day, and even take stuff. Even now we have goods trains carry vast amounts of material around the country, even if it is slow. And developing such is not simple when you dont know.
This is how it works. When you dont know its hard. When you know its childs play.
In my psychiatric training there are many psychological concepts to absorb, stuff that exists but cant be seen like theoretical physics, mathematics etc. These psychological concepts can be understood if you have the ability to grasp it, many dont. For instance in cognitive therapy, that your thoughts determine how you feel.
How to become aware of them, and how to reshape them, question assumptions, feelings etc. Try teaching that to someone who cant get it. Vinny, you say you dont know all there is to know, so why not have an open mind?, the fact we dont know how to get to mars in an hour doesnt mean we cant. Because no one can demonstrate it now doesnt mean it wont happen.
All is simple when you know, i can get to Kings Lynn in twenty minutes if i want, by train. If i walk it will take till tomorrow, but walking seems better, that a train, or a super duper rocket ship, cant happen, if this was 1723. Pro 1 plus one....getting to the moon by taxi.
Cars, the internet, super computers, science, all is one plus one, theres nothing fancy about it. Knowing is the key. Should we try and give up knowing?
How intuition works, projection, mental defence mechanisms.
When you know it its simple, when you dont its hard. When i can get a taxi to the moon it will be simple. You say it took 4,700 years to discover the steam engine, how long will it take to discover planetary travel? Yes it will take brains, a genius to evolve the concept, as Stephenson did with trains. From the first train in 1821 or whenever, trains exploded almost over night to all of the country.
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Post by Vinny on Jun 1, 2024 10:51:25 GMT
We can start by mathematically modelling it all, and analysing the energy requirements. Look at the work of Miguel Alcubierre.  |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 1, 2024 20:35:16 GMT
To state the obvious, no we dont know how to travel fast, yet. To use steam trains as an example, going ten miles an hour in 1832 or whenever was a revolution, that you could get from Manchester to Liverpool in the same day, and even take stuff. Even now we have goods trains carry vast amounts of material around the country, even if it is slow. And developing such is not simple when you dont know. This is how it works. When you dont know its hard. When you know its childs play. In my psychiatric training there are many psychological concepts to absorb, stuff that exists but cant be seen like theoretical physics, mathematics etc. These psychological concepts can be understood if you have the ability to grasp it, many dont. For instance in cognitive therapy, that your thoughts determine how you feel. How to become aware of them, and how to reshape them, question assumptions, feelings etc. Try teaching that to someone who cant get it. Vinny, you say you dont know all there is to know, so why not have an open mind?, the fact we dont know how to get to mars in an hour doesnt mean we cant. Because no one can demonstrate it now doesnt mean it wont happen. All is simple when you know, i can get to Kings Lynn in twenty minutes if i want, by train. If i walk it will take till tomorrow, but walking seems better, that a train, or a super duper rocket ship, cant happen, if this was 1723. Pro 1 plus one....getting to the moon by taxi. Cars, the internet, super computers, science, all is one plus one, theres nothing fancy about it. Knowing is the key. Should we try and give up knowing? How intuition works, projection, mental defence mechanisms. When you know it its simple, when you dont its hard. When i can get a taxi to the moon it will be simple. You say it took 4,700 years to discover the steam engine, how long will it take to discover planetary travel? Yes it will take brains, a genius to evolve the concept, as Stephenson did with trains. From the first train in 1821 or whenever, trains exploded almost over night to all of the country. That's a very long-winded way to express that you simply don't understand the basics of how ACTUAL SCIENCE works. Questioning assumptions and feelings is NOT science, it is snow-flake inspired pretend science " if we all feel strong enough that it will happen, the law of the conservation of energy will just magically change". FFS, that's even more delusional than Dubs. All The Best |
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Post by piglet on Jun 2, 2024 8:21:57 GMT
What is it about science i dont understand then, enlighten me. Questioning is science, like im questioning you and your views. Again you dont get it. Are the boundaries that exist insurmountable? Answer that.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jun 2, 2024 10:38:02 GMT
There is NOTHING at all even remotely simple about the things Dubs is offering absolutely NO SCIENCE WHATSOEVER to explain. We are not batting against the idea of FTL Travel. We are batting against the piss-poor, actually non-existent, job Dubs is doing to addressing the real issues of FTL travel; he is showing no science, just fairy-tale, bad science-fiction, conspiracy bullshit. Then when called out on it claims the "Deep State" (which by the way he has NOT shown even exists) may have deleted all of the evidence. They didn't you know; there never was any such evidence, that is the reason Dubs can't link to it. I have a friend who obtained a 1st in Theoretical Physics Mathematics at Oxford (guy is a genuine genius), he and I share a love of what is known as "hard sci-fi" (science fiction that works as closely as possible with the known science). He estimates, that at our current (vastly accelerated because of emergent AI) pace of learning about bleeding-edge physics we are about 500 to 1,000 years away from getting close to FTL travel - that is how far it is beyond anything we understand about how the universe works. Pretty much everything we thought we knew about science, and all the "progress" we made in science, prior to the Atomic Era, is irrelevant to our understanding of, and quest for, Interstellar Travel. Talking about Steam Engines in the same breath as FTL is like comparing the intellect of a single-cell creature to that of 180 IQ super-genius; they are not really comparable in any meaningful way. Oh, and remember, to get to the Steam Engine took about 4,700 years of human scientific discovery. All The Best I hope your Oxford genius is better than you at observation and sifting evidence. I caught you out skipping the ‘homework’ I set you on geo-weathering … Remember?? …. the FACTS I put forward … the SCIENCE sources I dropped. YOU are not interested in EVIDENCE … that was proven the other day. Calling everything I present as ‘nonexistent/conspiracy/bullshit’ is not very accurate is it? … so you didn’t like my heavy hailstone theory being a natural ionisation levitational effect? (Quick thought … was it nature or alien technology hovering above storm clouds in 1360 that created super-sized hailstones that killed 1,000 troops and stopped the 100 Years War? - I so love the idea of ‘alien intervention’) I do a lot around what you call “hard sci-fi” …. which is why you’re here I guess … challenging my ‘evidence’. …it’s the cutting edge of science … that arguably now pushes scientists to wake up after 100 years worshipping at the altar of Einstein … and get off their lazy butts and question Relativity and other aspects of our current ‘fairground Reality’ our slave masters created for Humanity. So … are you a professional close-minded debunker or open to new ideas/new theory? … time will tell …. it makes no odds to me … I just drop stuff that interests me … it’s a free educational service I deliver from stuff that mostly drops out of the ether … and Internet … which I filter … and which others CENSOR. … You claim you don’t know anything about the Deep State?? … Seriously?? … have you been living under a rock with your single-celled creatures?🙄 Secret factions within the CIA, covert groups, sects and Religion that have the funding to suppress knowledge - $5billion to throw at Dr Steven Greer to drop his Disclosure Project - you can buy the loyalty of many scientists to spin all sorts of ‘illusions’ with that sort of money. The Disclosure Project reveals reliable and best calibre witnesses to technology your Oxford guy probably thinks is conceptually impossible … UFO technology far advanced to our primitive thinking. Advanced anti-gravity devices have been seen for thousands of years ( why don’t you know this?) …recorded as vimanas - accounts of ‘space gods’ flitting around India ….also ignored by your wonderfully bright modern day scientists as “sci-fi imagination” … not REAL observation. … labelled quaint “folklore”. When are you people going to grow up and stop censoring people with eyesight? … WE are out there looking and experiencing the REAL WORLD… and not stuck indoors in Universities masturbating over a load of numbers on blackboards that contradicts our REALITY … yet has the cheek to concoct Quantum Theories that beggar belief. … the illusion is in so much of mainstream science these days … even AI. If you love hard sci-fi … go on the Disclosure Project website … it’s a large data base … but only a fraction of what has been experienced by reliable witnesses - REAL advanced technology - beyond what most can even imagine is possible … even inter-dimensional/shape-shifting technology has been observed by witnesses … which left many shocked, questioning their REALITY. I’ve dropped fragments here … stuff I think is credible. … but so incredible as to be unbelievable … this is the dilemma science has here … something it is not equipped to rationalise.🤔 |
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jun 2, 2024 11:15:41 GMT
The existence of Ion Thrusters does NOT prove your Anti-Gravity fairy-tale is true. All The Best From Wikipedia: “ An ion thruster, ion drive, or ion engine is a form of electric propulsion used for spacecraft propulsion. An ion thruster creates a cloud of positive ions from a neutral gas by ionizing it to extract some electrons from its atoms. The ions are then accelerated using electricity to create thrust. Ion thrusters are categorized as either electrostatic or electromagnetic. Electrostatic thruster ions are accelerated by the Coulomb force along the electric field direction. Temporarily stored electrons are reinjected by a neutralizer in the cloud of ions after it has passed through the electrostatic grid, so the gas becomes neutral again and can freely disperse in space without any further electrical interaction with the thruster. By contrast, electromagnetic thruster ions are accelerated by the Lorentz force to accelerate all species (free electrons as well as positive and negative ions) in the same direction whatever their electric charge, and are specifically referred to as plasma propulsion engines, where the electric field is not in the direction of the acceleration.[1][2] Ion thrusters in operation typically consume 1–7 kW of power, have exhaust velocities around 20–50 km/s (Isp 2000–5000 s), and possess thrusts of 25–250 mN and a propulsive efficiency 65–80%[3][4] though experimental versions have achieved 100 kW (130 hp), 5 N (1.1 lbf).[5] The Deep Space 1 spacecraft, powered by an ion thruster, changed velocity by 4.3 km/s (2.7 mi/s) while consuming less than 74 kg (163 lb) of xenon. The Dawn spacecraft broke the record, with a velocity change of 11.5 km/s (7.1 mi/s), though it was only half as efficient, requiring 425 kg (937 lb) of xenon.[6] Applications include control of the orientation and position of orbiting satellites (some satellites have dozens of low-power ion thrusters), use as a main propulsion engine for low-mass robotic space vehicles (such as Deep Space 1 and Dawn),[3][4] and serving as propulsion thrusters for crewed spacecraft and space stations (e.g. Tiangong).[7] Ion thrust engines are generally practical only in the vacuum of space as the engine's minuscule thrust cannot overcome any significant air resistance without radical design changes, as may be found in the 'Atmosphere Breathing Electric Propulsion' concept. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has created designs that are able to fly for short distances and at low speeds at ground level, using ultra-light materials and low drag aerofoils. An ion engine cannot usually generate sufficient thrust to achieve initial liftoff from any celestial body with significant surface gravity. For these reasons, spacecraft must rely on other methods such as conventional chemical rockets or non-rocket launch technologies to reach their initial orbit.” As people who have read this note … the Ion drive is a power hungry, inefficient failure to mimic UFO technology that many people have seen for centuries flitting around our airspace. … anti-gravity technology that easily dances around in a very weak gravity field! A few minutes of my own research … has shown you a principle that might be holding aloft hundreds of tons of slowly evolving very large heavy deadly hailstones rising and falling very high in storm clouds … an exhibition by Nature … clues that “ion lift principles” might work?? … if mainstream scientists can figure it out? The Holy Grail of the Future … en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VimanaLevitation is not a new phenomena to the people of Asia … who have witnessed it …. just to sceptical Western scientists who haven’t been able to explain it, and therefore dismiss it without further enquiry … are they scared of the unknown … or is the evidence of PROOF … always supressed? Do modern scientists lose the facility of being open-minded when they go through the Western educational SYSTEM? … conditioned to be ‘compliant’ to manipulation? You’re the first one to challenge what I said … thanks for responding. Perspective makes no difference … because Time as humans define it … is invisible (it’s a concept … of our imagination … as is Space-Time) Whatever time really is, it must at minimum be an illusion we all share quantitatively - ie we can agree on it. Any illusion can look different from different perspectives - examples are a mirage or a rainbow. A mirage and a rainbow isn’t an ‘illusion’ … as it’s a shared observation of light refractions …but glad you posited the idea of mass illusion being at work here … Isn’t it TIME scientists actually educated the Public exactly what TIME is ?? … and were HONEST about it?? Isn’t over 100 years duping the Public that TIME has ‘physicality’ (conceptual space-time) … ‘dimensionality’ and therefore ‘elasticity’ … enough deception for a lifetime?? I’m throwing out this opinion … because I am NOT in agreement with mainstream scientific thinking over TIME … I insist (sticking my neck out here above the parapet - as usual) … it’s purely a CONCEPT, artificial and imaginary. Atomic clocks are the most inaccurate things ever created … because if you move one 5ft higher than the other … Earth’s variable super weak gravitational force makes it tick out of phase with the one below it … it’s mechanism is far too super-sensitive to gravitational variation … and a few other variations known to science that swims around in our Ether! … which might be working at a sub atomic level too. A while ago, I started to question the accuracy of atomic clocks on Stargazers Lounge. Before I had the opportunity to air my ideas and put my evidence-based POV in the mix … The Forum Admin shut down the discussion! … incredible eh? … it wasn’t a subject even open to FREE DISCUSSION … that is the CENSORSHIP of the science community at work today … FREE DEBATE on respected platforms … NOT ALLOWED. Weird eh? - on a Forum you would think would be up for such a debate! Crap moderation imo. … it plagues the MSM everywhere … censorship. Why can’t experts with intellect … step out of their ‘ivory towers’ and have their ‘scientific facts and Laws’ challenged online anymore?? (Dark forces stepped in to control the Internet … and now close-minded totalitarians have the upper hand again. It’s TIME to get rid of them). Scientists say these atomic clocks are “so accurate that it’s mechanism won’t lose a fraction of a second since the Big Bang” … which they claim was when the Universe was ‘created’ … as if they ‘know’ there was no Universe before the Big Bang?? …another ‘illusion’ some people can buy in to if they want to roll over and be in the warm embrace of the System. Maybe cosmic dust from the explosion got in their eyes when astro-physicists made that claim!? … Imagine the history of the Earth during it’s formation … and calculate how much Earth’s gravity has varied since the Big Bang … and imagine how inaccurate this clock would be today … if it had been around back then?? Yes, TIME has ‘elasticity’ … but only in a duff clock made by Earth’s super scientists. 🤪🫣 It’s hard to fathom why people buy into these ideas without throwing in some obvious probing questions … but I guess it’s got to be ridiculous if it’s going to fit the current Agenda.  Rewritten now as: “When everything the WORLD believes is FALSE” … seeing as the CIA 😎, Mossad and NATO delusionally feel they can handle World Domination now! 😋 Lol! 🤡World is all they can handle right now - truth be known. |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 2, 2024 11:54:15 GMT
so you didn’t like my heavy hailstone theory You hailstones theory is utter bullshit. Hailstone form in updrafts, and one the force of the updraft is insufficient for keep the hailstone aloft they fall. Collecting more mass as that fall through the same layer of moisture that helped them form in the updraft. They don't sit up there in the clouds fully formed ignoring gravity. All The Best |
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Post by ProVeritas on Jun 2, 2024 11:56:17 GMT
Oh wow. Now suggesting that fairy-tale myth and legend is "science". Do us all a favour, put the tinfoil hat on and fuck off back to licking windows. All The Best |
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Post by piglet on Jun 2, 2024 13:07:08 GMT
All you believe pro is wrong, even when you get knocked down you get up, you are ineducable, people like you cant learn, but can be told what to believe.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Jun 2, 2024 14:15:52 GMT
so you didn’t like my heavy hailstone theory You hailstones theory is utter bullshit. Hailstone form in updrafts, and one the force of the updraft is insufficient for keep the hailstone aloft they fall. Collecting more mass as that fall through the same layer of moisture that helped them form in the updraft. They don't sit up there in the clouds fully formed ignoring gravity. All The Best Hailstones are all individuals of different weights and sizes … and if you look at the formation rings in a hailstone … and the collections of hail conglomerates … you can see these heavy objects have clearly gone up and down in the warm and cold convection aircurrents … even in their heavy condition … and fused together, attracted more moisture to refreeze multiple times …..grow larger, and heavier …. updrafts aren’t consistent enough to delivering this levitational behaviour. Here’s some simple maths for you to do … Calculate the speed of updraft necessary to raise a round contour-shaped deadly 2lb hailstone up aloft to freezing elevations over Chartres, France in 1360. In a downpour, there suddenly seems to be a change in the polarity of the storm cloud dynamic … as though some levitating force has suddenly been ‘released’ and the thousands of tons of water … and more oddly, very large lumps of hail of vastly different sizes and weights SUDDENLY fall out of the sky … as if an electrical switch has been applied … a magnetic-type force holding the hail aloft has magically been switched off …. the convection polarity core of the storm disturbed … and the weather system collapses … the force of gravity takes over and the collective collapses irrespective of size and weight … simultaneously shedding occurs within a few minutes … after hours of activity generating this motherlode. I think that Theory works pretty well for most people who can look at evidence and process data. |
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