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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 14:15:34 GMT
As Richard Tice's stated raison d'etre for the Reform Party is to destroy the Tories, why on earth would he prop them up? 🤔 I'm sure Clegg said similar, just before becoming Cameron's deputy prime minister. neither sunaks tories , nor tices rUK are in any way in a similar position to camerons tories and cleggs liberals in 2010 though are they red? It's a pipe dream. Reform aren't going to prop up the Tories. You know it , I know it. last pollster I saw was we think a few days ago saying tories and reform combined were on seven points less than labour. Are reform looking realistically like taking many if any mps in the polls? Or like ukip before them are their support levels spread too thinly ? |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 14:24:56 GMT
I'm sure Clegg said similar, just before becoming Cameron's deputy prime minister. neither sunaks tories , nor tices rUK are in any way in a similar position to camerons tories and cleggs liberals in 2010 though are they red? It's a pipe dream. Reform aren't going to prop up the Tories. You know it , I know it. last pollster I saw was we think a few days ago saying tories and reform combined were on seven points less than labour. Are reform looking realistically like taking many if any mps in the polls? Or like ukip before them are their support levels spread too thinly ? I'm not suggesting Reform UK will enter in any coalition, indeed it would be most unlikely. My point was to highlight the point that what politicians say today may be very different to what they say next week, let alone what they say prior to and post a general election. |
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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 14:30:58 GMT
neither sunaks tories , nor tices rUK are in any way in a similar position to camerons tories and cleggs liberals in 2010 though are they red? It's a pipe dream. Reform aren't going to prop up the Tories. You know it , I know it. last pollster I saw was we think a few days ago saying tories and reform combined were on seven points less than labour. Are reform looking realistically like taking many if any mps in the polls? Or like ukip before them are their support levels spread too thinly ? My point was to highlight the point that what politicians say today may be very different to what they say next week, let alone what they say prior to and post a general election. we know that. Most of us on here regularly comment on how all politicians lie when their lips move . It's generally a common agreement we all have no matter our political views. However , im pointing out your Clegg /Cameron scenario bears absolutely no resemblance to uk politics today 14 years on . Reform are not going to prop up the tories or vice versa , indeed , I haven't seen many polls that realistically show reform taking many mps of any conceivable number at all to prop up anyone. What I do agree with in the thread is reading between the lines things aren't quite so rosy for starmer as the press and pollsters are making out , so a hung parliament could conceivably happen. |
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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 14:45:18 GMT
neither sunaks tories , nor tices rUK are in any way in a similar position to camerons tories and cleggs liberals in 2010 though are they red? It's a pipe dream. Reform aren't going to prop up the Tories. You know it , I know it. last pollster I saw was we think a few days ago saying tories and reform combined were on seven points less than labour. Are reform looking realistically like taking many if any mps in the polls? Or like ukip before them are their support levels spread too thinly ? I'm not suggesting Reform UK will enter in any coalition, indeed it would be most unlikely. My point was to highlight the point that what politicians say today may be very different to what they say next week, let alone what they say prior to and post a general election. This all has a whiff red of history repeating itself. Between 2010 , and 2015 , your cleggy Cameron period , labour were well ahead in the polls , then as now. That was because back then , reforms sister party , UKIP , were taking votes off the tories right up to the last minute. The final polls said a dead heat , then results gave us labour finishing 7 points behind. didnt ukip finish on about 13 % back then , just as reform are currently polling 13 % ? with one seat? |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 14:55:46 GMT
My point was to highlight the point that what politicians say today may be very different to what they say next week, let alone what they say prior to and post a general election. we know that. Most of us on here regularly comment on how all politicians lie when their lips move . It's generally a common agreement we all have no matter our political views. However , im pointing out your Clegg /Cameron scenario bears absolutely no resemblance to uk politics today 14 years on . Reform are not going to prop up the tories or vice versa , indeed , I haven't seen many polls that realistically show reform taking many mps of any conceivable number at all to prop up anyone. What I do agree with in the thread is reading between the lines things aren't quite so rosy for starmer as the press and pollsters are making out , so a hung parliament could conceivably happen. Indeed, a hung parliament is certainly not out of the question but it wont be up to Starmer. Whether we get a hung parliament or not depends on Sunak's actions over the next six months. Tory fortunes may not be as bad as some people think. If Sunak manages to convince Tory voters to vote Tory rather than Reform UK, and he might, then it's all to play for. The Tories biggest asset is Starmer, he is pro EU, pro immigration, he doesn't inspire and he's boring. But has Sunak left it too late to convince Tory voters that he is a proper centre right Conservative? Who knows. I reckon we'll find out in November. |
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Post by Fairsociety on May 6, 2024 15:04:05 GMT
we know that. Most of us on here regularly comment on how all politicians lie when their lips move . It's generally a common agreement we all have no matter our political views. However , im pointing out your Clegg /Cameron scenario bears absolutely no resemblance to uk politics today 14 years on . Reform are not going to prop up the tories or vice versa , indeed , I haven't seen many polls that realistically show reform taking many mps of any conceivable number at all to prop up anyone. What I do agree with in the thread is reading between the lines things aren't quite so rosy for starmer as the press and pollsters are making out , so a hung parliament could conceivably happen. Indeed, a hung parliament is certainly not out of the question but it wont be up to Starmer. Whether we get a hung parliament or not depends on Sunak's actions over the next six months. Tory fortunes may not be as bad as some people think. If Sunak manages to convince Tory voters to vote Tory rather than Reform UK, and he might, then it's all to play for. The Tories biggest asset is Starmer, he is pro EU, pro immigration, he doesn't inspire and he's boring. But has Sunak left it too late to convince Tory voters that he is a proper centre right Conservative? Who knows. I reckon we'll find out in November. If the hung parliament went in favour of Sunak the Lib-Dems, the SNP would refuse to make up the coalition, if it was a Labour coalition the SNP and the Lib-Dems would jump at the chance, I am afraid we'd probably end up with a Tory/DUP coalition, having said that anything and I mean anything is better than a Labour/Lib-Dem/SNP coalition. |
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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 15:04:19 GMT
we know that. Most of us on here regularly comment on how all politicians lie when their lips move . It's generally a common agreement we all have no matter our political views. However , im pointing out your Clegg /Cameron scenario bears absolutely no resemblance to uk politics today 14 years on . Reform are not going to prop up the tories or vice versa , indeed , I haven't seen many polls that realistically show reform taking many mps of any conceivable number at all to prop up anyone. What I do agree with in the thread is reading between the lines things aren't quite so rosy for starmer as the press and pollsters are making out , so a hung parliament could conceivably happen. Indeed, a hung parliament is certainly not out of the question but it wont be up to Starmer. Whether we get a hung parliament or not depends on Sunak's actions over the next six months. Tory fortunes may not be as bad as some people think. If Sunak manages to convince Tory voters to vote Tory rather than Reform UK, and he might, then it's all to play for. The Tories biggest asset is Starmer, he is pro EU, pro immigration, he doesn't inspire and he's boring. But has Sunak left it too late to convince Tory voters that he is a proper centre right Conservative? Who knows. I reckon we'll find out in November.  I love a positive thinker red. Sunak is the biggest gift that a labour leader could ever hope for. I thought Theresa May was the worst tory pm and leader in modern history , till wee sunak came along and said hold my beer. the stars have certainly aligned for starmer and his party in both scotland and England , but despite what the polls are saying , im not sure he is convincing many people. His approval ratings are tanking in scotland. Having said that , we are talking the biggest wet blanket in tory leadership history facing one of the worst labour and snp leaders in modern history , while the smaller parties are largely invisible , including the liberals ( is ed Davey still alive?) so you are right its all to play for. However , it's not unfair to say never in my lifetime have I seen the main two English parties ( sorry uk I mean) so despised its quite possible anything could happen. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 15:06:36 GMT
Indeed, a hung parliament is certainly not out of the question but it wont be up to Starmer. Whether we get a hung parliament or not depends on Sunak's actions over the next six months. Tory fortunes may not be as bad as some people think. If Sunak manages to convince Tory voters to vote Tory rather than Reform UK, and he might, then it's all to play for. The Tories biggest asset is Starmer, he is pro EU, pro immigration, he doesn't inspire and he's boring. But has Sunak left it too late to convince Tory voters that he is a proper centre right Conservative? Who knows. I reckon we'll find out in November. If the hung parliament went in favour of Sunak the Lib-Dems, the SNP would refuse to make up the coalition, if it was a Labour coalition the SNP and the Lib-Dems would jump at the chance, I am afraid we'd probably end up with a Tory/DUP coalition, having said that anything and I mean anything is better than a Labour/Lib-Dem/SNP coalition. Reluctantly, I agree. |
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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 15:09:59 GMT
Indeed, a hung parliament is certainly not out of the question but it wont be up to Starmer. Whether we get a hung parliament or not depends on Sunak's actions over the next six months. Tory fortunes may not be as bad as some people think. If Sunak manages to convince Tory voters to vote Tory rather than Reform UK, and he might, then it's all to play for. The Tories biggest asset is Starmer, he is pro EU, pro immigration, he doesn't inspire and he's boring. But has Sunak left it too late to convince Tory voters that he is a proper centre right Conservative? Who knows. I reckon we'll find out in November. If the hung parliament went in favour of Sunak the Lib-Dems, the SNP would refuse to make up the coalition, if it was a Labour coalition the SNP and the Lib-Dems would jump at the chance, I am afraid we'd probably end up with a Tory/DUP coalition, having said that anything and I mean anything is better than a Labour/Lib-Dem/SNP coalition. labour have repeatedly said( I know I know) they won't work with the snp because of starmers fear of being seen getting into bed with Scottish nationalism. That would be a laugh watching that , but its unlikely to happen , not just because starmer wouldn't want propped up by them , but because they are conceivably about to lose many of their seats in scotland so may not be in a position like reform to prop anyone up. Last poll I saw had the tories taking 170 seats or so , so im not sure the tories and dup working together would have the numbers , but as I said earlier , the tory vote is often underestimated and labours overestimated anything is possible. The BRINO rejoin scenario is of course a big elephant in the room , and it may well be many tory brexiters will go out and hold their nose for wee sunak to keep England/UK being humiliated on the world stage by being taken back into the EU . Seems to be a plague on all your houses at the minute. Immigration and the state of the economy is sunaks achilles heel though. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 15:22:52 GMT
I love a positive thinker red. Sunak is the biggest gift that a labour leader could ever hope for. I thought Theresa May was the worst tory pm and leader in modern history , till wee sunak came along and said hold my beer. the stars have certainly aligned for starmer and his party in both scotland and England , but despite what the polls are saying , im not sure he is convincing many people. His approval ratings are tanking in scotland. Having said that , we are talking the biggest wet blanket in tory leadership history facing one of the worst labour and snp leaders in modern history , while the smaller parties are largely invisible , including the liberals ( is ed Davey still alive?) so you are right its all to play for. However , it's not unfair to say never in my lifetime have I seen the main two English parties ( sorry uk I mean) so despised its quite possible anything could happen. It's no secret that Sunak's biggest problem is the fact that he isn't a Conservative, or he isn't Conservative enough. I'd describe him as a liberal centrist globalist, but I think in an attempt to save his own skin and the election, he will become a lot more Conservative over the next few months and you never know, it just might be enough to sway Tory voters. Funny you should mention SNP leaders, I've just listened to Swinney pouring praise on Yousaf, his diligence, honesty and integrity lol. Honestly, you would have thought Yousaf had just been awarded a Nobel Peace Prize it was hilarious. I don't know where Ed Davey is, does anyone? The LibDems are pretty irrelevant, he's probably opening a unicorn sanctuary somewhere, and yes I agree, current politicians are for some reason a pretty hopeless lot. |
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Post by Fairsociety on May 6, 2024 15:27:53 GMT
If the hung parliament went in favour of Sunak the Lib-Dems, the SNP would refuse to make up the coalition, if it was a Labour coalition the SNP and the Lib-Dems would jump at the chance, I am afraid we'd probably end up with a Tory/DUP coalition, having said that anything and I mean anything is better than a Labour/Lib-Dem/SNP coalition. labour have repeatedly said( I know I know) they won't work with the snp because of starmers fear of being seen getting into bed with Scottish nationalism. That would be a laugh watching that , but its unlikely to happen , not just because starmer wouldn't want propped up by them , but because they are conceivably about to lose many of their seats in scotland so may not be in a position like reform to prop anyone up. Last poll I saw had the tories taking 170 seats or so , so im not sure the tories and dup working together would have the numbers , but as I said earlier , the tory vote is often underestimated and labours overestimated anything is possible. The BRINO rejoin scenario is of course a big elephant in the room , and it may well be many tory brexiters will go out and hold their nose for wee sunak to keep England/UK being humiliated on the world stage by being taken back into the EU . Seems to be a plague on all your houses at the minute. Immigration and the state of the economy is sunaks achilles heel though. If it came down to Labour forming a coalition I would prefer the SNP, Ed Davey is arse licking, dumb fuck Europhile, there has never been a leader of a political party who is so out-of-touch not just with voters but with reality, the dumb fuck hasn't the foggiest idea what goes on in the real world, he's too busy arse licking and bowing down to his illustrious EU, if he forms a coalition with Labour you can kiss goodbye to any progress with Brexit, it will be dead in the water, and we'll heading back to the shackles of the EU. |
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Post by thomas on May 6, 2024 15:31:15 GMT
I love a positive thinker red. Sunak is the biggest gift that a labour leader could ever hope for. I thought Theresa May was the worst tory pm and leader in modern history , till wee sunak came along and said hold my beer. the stars have certainly aligned for starmer and his party in both scotland and England , but despite what the polls are saying , im not sure he is convincing many people. His approval ratings are tanking in scotland. Having said that , we are talking the biggest wet blanket in tory leadership history facing one of the worst labour and snp leaders in modern history , while the smaller parties are largely invisible , including the liberals ( is ed Davey still alive?) so you are right its all to play for. However , it's not unfair to say never in my lifetime have I seen the main two English parties ( sorry uk I mean) so despised its quite possible anything could happen. It's no secret that Sunak's biggest problem is the fact that he isn't a Conservative, or he isn't Conservative enough. I'd describe him as a liberal centrist globalist, but I think in an attempt to save his own skin and the election, he will become a lot more Conservative over the next few months and you never know, it just might be enough to sway Tory voters. Funny you should mention SNP leaders, I've just listened to Swinney pouring praise on Yousaf, his diligence, honesty and integrity lol. Honestly, you would have thought Yousaf had just been awarded a Nobel Peace Prize it was hilarious. I don't know where Ed Davey is, does anyone? The LibDems are pretty irrelevant, he's probably opening a unicorn sanctuary somewhere, and yes I agree, current politicians are for some reason a pretty hopeless lot. lets be honest John Swinney Rishi Sunak keir starmer and ed Davey are muppets. The uk establishment is clearly getting behind starmer as the best bet for managed decline of whats left of the uk state , but the public aren't warming to another bout of blairism. scratch the surface of the polls , and their predicted low turnouts , overestimating Labour underestimating tories etc and this is clearly no run up to a 1997 style rout . |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 16:24:31 GMT
I just listened to a journalist reporting on something Andy Street said, as you know Andy Street 'was' the conservative West Mids mayor who has just lost to Labour. Incredibly, he said the conservatives must stay centrist, he said to stay relevant the conservatives must be a party of the centre.
The man is an utter pillock. The very reason conservative voters are disillusioned is precisely because the government are centrist. Tory voters don't want centrist ffs they want a proper centre right Conservative government. Andy Street is the perfect example of whats wrong with many Conservative politicians today. They're in the wrong party.
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Post by andrewbrown on May 6, 2024 17:10:18 GMT
I just listened to a journalist reporting on something Andy Street said, as you know Andy Street 'was' the conservative West Mids mayor who has just lost to Labour. Incredibly, he said the conservatives must stay centrist, he said to stay relevant the conservatives must be a party of the centre. The man is an utter pillock. The very reason conservative voters are disillusioned is precisely because the government are centrist. Tory voters don't want centrist ffs they want a proper centre right Conservative government. Andy Street is the perfect example of whats wrong with many Conservative politicians today. They're in the wrong party. Or maybe he has a point but you disagree? Andy Street is well respected much beyond his party. |
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Post by Red Rackham on May 6, 2024 17:44:38 GMT
I just listened to a journalist reporting on something Andy Street said, as you know Andy Street 'was' the conservative West Mids mayor who has just lost to Labour. Incredibly, he said the conservatives must stay centrist, he said to stay relevant the conservatives must be a party of the centre. The man is an utter pillock. The very reason conservative voters are disillusioned is precisely because the government are centrist. Tory voters don't want centrist ffs they want a proper centre right Conservative government. Andy Street is the perfect example of whats wrong with many Conservative politicians today. They're in the wrong party. Or maybe he has a point but you disagree? Andy Street is well respected much beyond his party. Yes I believe he was well respected, but that doesn't alter the fact that traditional Tory voters are disillusioned with a centrist Tory party. |
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I love a positive thinker red. Sunak is the biggest gift that a labour leader could ever hope for. I thought Theresa May was the worst tory pm and leader in modern history , till wee sunak came along and said hold my beer. the stars have certainly aligned for starmer and his party in both scotland and England , but despite what the polls are saying , im not sure he is convincing many people. His approval ratings are tanking in scotland.