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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2024 21:16:15 GMT
More Fascist …Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived . Indeed. Remined me, or more specifically Pacifico , when it comes to economics, which economic system is firmly entrenched on the "right" of the Political spectrum? Mmmmm, Capitalism. All The Best Who cares where it is on the spectrum - all that matters is that experience has shown it to be better than any alternative.
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Post by ProVeritas on May 8, 2024 21:42:27 GMT
But that is a CHOICE Israel makes, So it can't be Hamas' fault. I am not denying Israel has that choice, or is free to exercise it how they see fit. I am saying that by refusing the cease fire agreement the conflict is only continuing because Israel CHOOSES to continue it. All The Best But not in quite the same way that Hamas chose to initiate it. Initiate what? The Arab-Israeli conflict is decades older than Hamas. All The Best
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 8, 2024 23:26:30 GMT
Pointless agreeing a ceasefire with Hamas then.
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 7:25:23 GMT
No on no denigrating others is the last thing I resort to I mainly reserve it for those who repeatedly post wind-ups. In any case I am way behind you in terms of denigrating others, you can start with you denigrating me Well, I only denigrate those who obviously deserve it; so fat that's You and Jonksy. Because you both claim to be informed, and neither of you are. You claim to be unbiased, and have more bias than anyone I have ever debated. Go on, tell me how, given Hamas have accepted a Cease Fire Deal but Netanyahu has rejected it and started an invasion of Rafah, that it is still the Arab's fault the Middle East Conflict is raging. This should be fun, seeing the semantic contortions and outright lies you'll need to bring to bear to get even close. All The Best I just expose your extreme anti-Semitism. As Netanyahu said recently millions of Jews were slaughtered in 1940s Germany AND NO ONE CAME TO HELP THEM. So as far as he is concerned nothing comes before the safety of Israel and the Israeli people. Try putting yourself in his shoes, would you leave your country open to another slaughtering raping massacre by a hate filled misguided anti-Jewish organisation? Hamas have accepted a ceasefire deal that suits them, oh! fancy that. Hamas are the absolute evil that have created the mess in Gaza and you want to let them off and save their own skins. Hamas have created the mess, but what have they, (or the Arab world), done to help the people of Gaza?
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 7:32:57 GMT
But not in quite the same way that Hamas chose to initiate it. Initiate what? The Arab-Israeli conflict is decades older than Hamas. All The Best But the hatred and disrespect that Palestinian Arabs have for the Palestinian Jews goes back even further.
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 7:41:01 GMT
You do ramble on, many of your examples have nothing to do with Capitalism.Mankind has been using and abusing others in one way or another for thousands of years before Capitalism as we know it, came on the seen. Pick one, and then demonstrate it has nothing to do with Capitalism. Oh, and just when do you think Capitalism "came on the scene"? I mean you certainly have to go back to the Renaissance for the commonly accepted advent of Modern Capitalism, but there are strong elements of Capitalism going as far back as the Roman Empire and 4thC BC Greece (there's a great paper on it written by Sam Goldman of Union College). Means of production owned by Capital Interest and worked by members of a lower socio-economic class than that of the owners being one example. A hierarchical structure where wealth became the primary determinant of not only social standing but also political power as another example. Capitalism has been with us for about half of Human History. All The Best I don't need to, it is for you to unravel in your mind, the difference between mankind's greed and self interest that has existed long before any regulated form of capitalism came on the scene. The French conquest of Algeria was triggered by the problems caused by Muslim Barbary pirates operating out of Algeria.
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 7:44:39 GMT
Nope, take the example of a football team whos coach has started to fail the team, then changes are made (like in a general election). if the next coach fails then another change is made. Dictators don't fail, they just change opinions by the use of propaganda / lies in the media. So jumbled thinking is all yours. Dictators fail when they can no longer command the loyalty needed to rule. It's quite similar to democracy, though democracy (ideally) involves far less bloodshed with a transfer of power. Both 'systems' can fail and the real arbitrator of failure is not 'the fairness of the system' but whether the resulting leadership is competent and honest. Dictators stay in power, just like Putin, long after their sell by date because they have the power and the means to do just that.
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Post by ProVeritas on May 9, 2024 8:34:13 GMT
Pick one, and then demonstrate it has nothing to do with Capitalism. Oh, and just when do you think Capitalism "came on the scene"? I mean you certainly have to go back to the Renaissance for the commonly accepted advent of Modern Capitalism, but there are strong elements of Capitalism going as far back as the Roman Empire and 4thC BC Greece (there's a great paper on it written by Sam Goldman of Union College). Means of production owned by Capital Interest and worked by members of a lower socio-economic class than that of the owners being one example. A hierarchical structure where wealth became the primary determinant of not only social standing but also political power as another example. Capitalism has been with us for about half of Human History. All The Best 1) I don't need to, it is for you to unravel in your mind, the difference between mankind's greed and self interest that has existed long before any regulated form of capitalism came on the scene. 2) The French conquest of Algeria was triggered by the problems caused by Muslim Barbary pirates operating out of Algeria. 1) What you mean is you can't. 2) Always eager to blame Muslims, as usual. Let's look at the actual facts. France, via Pierre Deval - the French Consul, sought to buy grain for the French Army from Jewish Merchants operating in Algiers. The Jewish Merchants owed a significant debt to Hussein Dey, but could not pay that debt until Deval had pre-paid them for the grain he wanted for France. Furthermore, until that debt was paid Dey was not going to sell grain to the Jewish Merchants. Dey accused Deval and the Jewish Merchants of conspiring against him. All of this happened because of a Trade Deal carried out in bad faith. A Trade Deal involving intermediaries who do not produce the goods they sell is a classic component of, this may shock you, Capitalism. Want to try again? Anything else on want to try and blame on Muslims? All The Best
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2024 8:48:36 GMT
Pointless agreeing a ceasefire with Hamas then. Very true. We should concentrate on our own Islamist problem and stop wasting time on their propaganda bots.
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 10:57:31 GMT
Dictators fail when they can no longer command the loyalty needed to rule. It's quite similar to democracy, though democracy (ideally) involves far less bloodshed with a transfer of power. Both 'systems' can fail and the real arbitrator of failure is not 'the fairness of the system' but whether the resulting leadership is competent and honest. Dictators stay in power, just like Putin, long after their sell by date because they have the power and the means to do just that. My guess is that Putin would likely win a democratic election in Russia. The most important factor in a system functioning well isn't that it is called (deemed) 'democratic' or 'dictatorship', it is the honestly and bravery of the people.
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Post by dodgydave on May 9, 2024 12:42:26 GMT
Capitalism has brought 85% of the world out of extreme poverty, Communism (no profit) put 100 million people in the ground. Capitalism puts 2,102,400 people in the ground EVERY year JUST due to starvation. Globally we produce enough food to feed the global population with room to spare - yet because of capitalism's desire for profit above all 1person globally dies every 15 seconds because of starvation. In the US there are 15 Million empty homes, but only 653,000 homeless people - those homes sit empty because of one reason - the ideology of Capitalism. According to the World Bank (that bastion of socialism) 700 Million people live in extreme poverty - that's Capitalism. Poverty is being driven by the wealth gap; with the top 1% of the British Population holds more wealth than 70% of the British Population ( Source) - that's Capitalism. Go on, tell me how great Capitalism is again. All The Best ITS HAS BROUGHT 85% OF THE WORLD OUT OF EXTREME POVERTY.... there you go, I told you again. Extreme poverty is now running at just 8% which historically means NOW is the best time to be alive for the vast majority of people. Pretending life was great before Capitalism, or that there is a PROVEN better system is just lies. If you need more proof of that just look at how the Communist Party in China has had to switch to a capitalist economy to drag its population out of poverty. Obviously you need good regulation, and strong social policies to create the best places to live. The 1% arguments are just bollocks, they are rich because they own shares (usually in the company they founded. Wealth is not income, you cannot share wealth equally. How the fuck would you do that? Make Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates etc give away their shares and lose control of the companies they founded? lol.
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 13:35:48 GMT
1) I don't need to, it is for you to unravel in your mind, the difference between mankind's greed and self interest that has existed long before any regulated form of capitalism came on the scene. 2) The French conquest of Algeria was triggered by the problems caused by Muslim Barbary pirates operating out of Algeria. 1) What you mean is you can't. 2) Always eager to blame Muslims, as usual. Let's look at the actual facts. France, via Pierre Deval - the French Consul, sought to buy grain for the French Army from Jewish Merchants operating in Algiers. The Jewish Merchants owed a significant debt to Hussein Dey, but could not pay that debt until Deval had pre-paid them for the grain he wanted for France. Furthermore, until that debt was paid Dey was not going to sell grain to the Jewish Merchants. Dey accused Deval and the Jewish Merchants of conspiring against him. All of this happened because of a Trade Deal carried out in bad faith. A Trade Deal involving intermediaries who do not produce the goods they sell is a classic component of, this may shock you, Capitalism. Want to try again? Anything else on want to try and blame on Muslims? All The Best OK, so I made a mistake but as always I have no problem in accepting the truth. I had never got any further than the earlier Spanish conquests in Algeria as in the --"On 27 June, the fleet arrived at the coasts of Oran, and the Duke of Montemar, ordered the troops to disembark on the Aguadas beach, near Mers el-Kebir, but this could not take place till the next day. At dawn, the troops began to disembarked with barely any resistance. The Algerian troops, who up to that time had remained in defensive positions, began to attack the Spanish troops; however, the firepower of the Spanish ships, in particular the ship of the line Castilla, under the command of Don Juan José Navarro, made a big contribution in covering the landing troops by the use of his naval guns, decimating and forcing the Muslim troops to flee. (In the 18th century). I still see how you confuse capitalism with mans innate cruelty to man. Cruelty and monetary gain are two different things. Each exists without the other.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2024 16:15:32 GMT
Dictators stay in power, just like Putin, long after their sell by date because they have the power and the means to do just that. My guess is that Putin would likely win a democratic election in Russia. The most important factor in a system functioning well isn't that it is called (deemed) 'democratic' or 'dictatorship', it is the honestly and bravery of the people. I think so too. The British people are called Nazis for supporting this country whilst the population is being intentionally replaced and spat on. The establishment and its media are are also cheerleading for Hamas terrorists. Our democracy consists on one say, where the majority no longer even take part. It would be extremely easy to paint the West as the bad guys and hard to disagree with it.
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Post by see2 on May 9, 2024 17:55:53 GMT
Dictators stay in power, just like Putin, long after their sell by date because they have the power and the means to do just that. My guess is that Putin would likely win a democratic election in Russia.The most important factor in a system functioning well isn't that it is called (deemed) 'democratic' or 'dictatorship', it is the honestly and bravery of the people. He might, but that would be down to the lies and distortions he has planted in the minds of so many of the Russian people. As Putin wold never allow a full and free democratic vote in Russia, we will never know. Meanwhile, Some 900 civilians are in Prison because they dared to criticise Putin's war in Ukraine.
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Post by Orac on May 9, 2024 18:03:29 GMT
My guess is that Putin would likely win a democratic election in Russia.The most important factor in a system functioning well isn't that it is called (deemed) 'democratic' or 'dictatorship', it is the honestly and bravery of the people. He might, but that would be down to the lies and distortions he has planted in the minds of so many of the Russian people. As Putin wold never allow a full and free democratic vote in Russia, we will never know. All you have a is a sling of trite slogans. I don't even think you even have a clear idea what democracy is. You are certainly not able to engage the subject at the level of ideas
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