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Post by see2 on May 4, 2024 5:40:47 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2024 9:36:16 GMT
According to the number of people who turned out to vote yesterday, two out of three people don't think it's worth voting for, let alone a fight.
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Post by piglet on May 4, 2024 10:08:34 GMT
A good question, im not sure that it is, democracy is a talking shop that gets nowhere, and muddies the waters on everything, nothing gets done. Doing is better, that mistakes are quickly rectified, or would be by honest people.
Democracy in britain does not exist anyway, Sunak lies openly, defies his mandate, back stabs, does not care anyway. If this is democracy then you can shove it. Its a con job, you vote for whoever, then they betray all. He who shouts the loudest wins, as above, the BBC only listens to pressure groups.
The silent majority are ignored. Government is too big, the wage bill must halve the national output. Nature has its ways of dismantling systems that dont work, it will go eventually.
There must be a precursor in history, that when society gets like this, what happens next....from the past? Anyone know? My guess is revolution, what would that look like? Was the Trump riot a start? You cannot ignore core values for long before hell breaks loose, like no law and order, invasion.....bankrupcy.
To rebel then impose the same but not the previous? I suspect parliament has evolved to soak up tax money, drag out all things, for christ sake the house of lords exists.
The machinery used to run society needs replacing.
All is corrupted.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on May 4, 2024 18:13:37 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? We do not have a functioning democracy and neither do we have a free press. What we have is a bunch of lying bastards and the most popular bastard out of all of Westminster past and present only hits 30% popularity. Compare that to the Chinese president which is 91% currently according to an international survey of leaders of countries. In fact all over the Far East the popularities are in the 80s for the most part. Isn't it strange that the global pattern in all of this is the Western leaders are at the other end with similar scores to our own, and well below 50%?
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Post by patman post on May 4, 2024 19:07:52 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? Depends who you are and where you are. I live in London and have no problem in buying and listening to virtually any news media I want — but I’m told that if I go to Liverpool I’d find it difficult to purchase a copy of the Sun. I can’t foresee the need elsewhere in the UK to resort to law or violence to access any news media, nor do I see any administration dictating what information — outside of security and other specific private data — that news media can carry…
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Post by johnofgwent on May 4, 2024 19:58:10 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? Good question. Should journalists be exempt from penalties for lawbreaking ?
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Post by patman post on May 4, 2024 20:24:39 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? Good question. Should journalists be exempt from penalties for lawbreaking ?No.
While professional journalists are often recognised by official bodies and organisations — and may well be afforded particular privileged access to information, people and places (for the benefit of both) — they should be as much subject to the law as any other citizen...
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Post by dodgydave on May 4, 2024 23:06:25 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? Well you obviously don't believe so because you refuse to acknowledge any argument made by what you consider to be "right wing" parties or media lol.
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Post by ProVeritas on May 4, 2024 23:52:16 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? We are not a democracy. We are a constitutional Monarchy with smoke and mirror trapping of democracy designed to fool enough people into accepting a clearly, and demonstrably, false narrative. A false narrative whose sole purpose is to keep the landed and titled gentry very wealthy, by having them sponge off of the working man and woman. All The Best
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Post by ProVeritas on May 4, 2024 23:55:33 GMT
Democracy and the freedom of the press, are they worth fighting for? Good question. Should journalists be exempt from penalties for lawbreaking ? Depends on which laws they break, and why. Breaking, or abetting in the breaking, of Corporate or Governmental, or Institutional Gagging Orders in order to blow the whistle on an issue that is clearly in the Public Interest should be protected. All The Best
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Post by wapentake on May 5, 2024 0:28:22 GMT
Good question. Should journalists be exempt from penalties for lawbreaking ? Depends on which laws they break, and why. Breaking, or abetting in the breaking, of Corporate or Governmental, or Institutional Gagging Orders in order to blow the whistle on an issue that is clearly in the Public Interest should be protected. All The Best The problem has been though they were more interested in hacking celebrities phones and the phones of a murdered schoolgirl and family.
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Post by johnofgwent on May 5, 2024 5:51:05 GMT
Good question. Should journalists be exempt from penalties for lawbreaking ? Depends on which laws they break, and why. Breaking, or abetting in the breaking, of Corporate or Governmental, or Institutional Gagging Orders in order to blow the whistle on an issue that is clearly in the Public Interest should be protected. All The Best How about any of the following then : Espionage ? Assisting or enabling the transfer of information to an agent of a hostile power ? Breaking the Official Secrets Acts ? Contempt of Court ? Actions which if undertaken by anyone other than a journalist n pursuit of freedom of the press would give rise to a charge of being an accessory to a crime ? You see, I can think of a number of cases where 'freedom of the press' is a (generally left leaning) incantation meaning 'can't touch me' The earliest example I can think of Government abuse of laws protecting 'national security' to attempt to protect personal stupidity comes from the days of Thatcher. I'm sure there were others far earlier. But we have allowed hatred of the individuals abusing those laws to enable widespread disregard of the law itself =====≠=================== On another tack in the same vein, I wonder if you, or anyone else, can enlighten me. For as long as I can remember, the Guardian has greeted anyone viewing it's online site with a plea for money using the simple - and to the public spirited, middle class champagne socialist I would have thought effective - claim that their appeal to those who can afford to stump up to fund it provides access to their particular spin on the truth for those who cannot afford it. More recently this appeal to the deep pockets of the 'socialist' wealthy has been replaced with a claim that establishment lawyers are trying to shut down their publication of 'tbe truth' and that they need money to burn on paying lawyers to allow them to fight such moves I must have missed the reporting of what it was The Guardian published that brought them this attention. Do you - or anyone else reading this - have any idea what that might have been ??
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Post by Orac on May 5, 2024 7:17:31 GMT
Democracy substantially means - an open, free public discussion.
However, this principle conflicts with security and without security you have nothing at all.
These two conflicting forces can be balanced if the vast majority of people in a society agree what security is and what should be secure. If they don't, then you have a problem.
Then, to make things fall apart even more, you can add corruption
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Post by sandypine on May 5, 2024 8:15:46 GMT
Democracy substantially means - an open, free public discussion. However, this principle conflicts with security and without security you have nothing at all. These two conflicting forces can be balanced if the vast majority of people in a society agree what security is and what should be secure. If they don't, then you have a problem. Then, to make things fall apart even more, you can add corruption Corruption tends to be protected by the lack of open and free public discussion. In the UK there has been a tendency for free public discussion to, eventually, correct governmental wrongs. The condition of the Boer prisoner of war camps was only corrected after British Public Opinion was active against the system, the Black and Tans were finally withdrawn after British Public Opinion railed against their deployment, the injustices in Kenya at Hola camp were finally corrected due to British Public Opinion pressure. Parliament also played key roles in these situations. Currently corruption, of some sort, is being protected by the lack of free and open discussion on the Pandemic and Vaccines, in and out of Parliament, as well as the immigration problems. Perhaps time will tell, in a democracy it usually does to some degree.
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Post by ProVeritas on May 5, 2024 8:47:16 GMT
Depends on which laws they break, and why. Breaking, or abetting in the breaking, of Corporate or Governmental, or Institutional Gagging Orders in order to blow the whistle on an issue that is clearly in the Public Interest should be protected. All The Best How about any of the following then : Espionage ? Assisting or enabling the transfer of information to an agent of a hostile power ? Breaking the Official Secrets Acts ? Contempt of Court ? Actions which if undertaken by anyone other than a journalist n pursuit of freedom of the press would give rise to a charge of being an accessory to a crime ? Ok, let's think about that. Espionage: that is a case by case thing for me, who or what the espionage is used against, and in whose interests is surely the key factor. Assisting or enabling the transfer of information to an agent of a hostile power: directly and deliberately with a aforethought assisting a "Hostile Power" should be a crime, incidentally/inadvertently assisting a Hostile Power when is pursuit of a genuine Public Interest goal should not be. Breaking the Official Secrets Acts: again, I can conceive of cases where breaking the OSA would be justifiable in the Public Interest Contempt of Court: I have a saying, "Justice isn't always legal and the law isn't always just" until both of those are clearly demonstrably false CoC may actually, at times, be a Duty of a good Citizen. A truly functioning Democracy requires informed consent; all of the laws you mention above are there to either prevent information being available or to compel consent, accordingly they can not justifiably be seen as "absolutes" 100% correct at all times. All The Best
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