|
|
Post by jaydee on Nov 25, 2022 13:32:55 GMT
She doesn't have to go through organising a referendum and at the next GE she will wind up the nationalists. Guaranteed victory for the SNP. All she has to say is "England won't let us have a vote".
Hopefully this will put to an end all those claims that Scotland is a sovereign country... How will it put a end to the fact Scotland is a sovereign country. What has the conclusion under the present statute that the Union is not voluntary to do with it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 15:36:33 GMT
She doesn't have to go through organising a referendum and at the next GE she will wind up the nationalists. Guaranteed victory for the SNP. All she has to say is "England won't let us have a vote".
Hopefully this will put to an end all those claims that Scotland is a sovereign country... Scotland is a sovereign country. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 25, 2022 15:52:25 GMT
She doesn't have to go through organising a referendum and at the next GE she will wind up the nationalists. Guaranteed victory for the SNP. All she has to say is "England won't let us have a vote".
Hopefully this will put to an end all those claims that Scotland is a sovereign country... To be fair pacifico , i have never in all my days heard or saw anyone claim scotland is a "sovereign " country. It is a country though , and that fact is recognised both within and without the uk.
I dont think anything is going to be put to an end though anytime soon. In fact , the brit supreme court ruling has merely stirred up a hornets nest.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 25, 2022 15:54:09 GMT
Scotland is a sovereign country. (I stand corrected Pacifico)
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 25, 2022 16:03:22 GMT
I refer you to the shit show called Westminster, as its lies have been exposed once again. It has not changed since I posted it. I forgot to add in the post. I wrote it on Word about two weeks ago. As the definition of what was being asked was clear. It is not a voluntary Union. It is another copy and paste which will not change. The rants and meaningless sound bites now being spewed were predicted. Like Brexit means Brexit. We will now control our own borders. And so on. ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/post/22152/threadI think Scotland should be free to leave whenever they choose. I also wish they would allow an English independence vote then you definitely would be an independent country by default  None of this matters though, because in the real world neither the Tories or Labour are going to allow indyref2 for the foreseeable future because they will be dealing with the post-COVID problems for at least a decade. Like I said, I think you will get the vote in the 2030s. I take on board some of what you say , but dont agree with other points.
First of all , if this is a democratic union , your first point should stand. We now see the european union is the far more democratic union than the british one on that point.
Your second point about english independence.....whats stopping you?
Your third point is largely irrelevant. No major politician or party at westminster has supported any country leaving the empire of old , but it still happened. 62 countires as far as im aware gained independence.
Personally im not a fan of sturgeon , and as salmond has said , this doesnt appear to be some master plan of hers , but more the law of unintended consequences in terms of the fury broguht about by the supreme court ruling.
I dont think the uk can survive as it stands to the 2030`s with the scottish and northern irish issues , welsh slowly waking up , and the divisions in england over brexit and much more.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 25, 2022 16:09:43 GMT
What is good news for Sturgeon She doesn't have to go through organising a referendum and at the next GE she will wind up the nationalists. Guaranteed victory for the SNP. All she has to say is "England won't let us have a vote". the brit gov havent thought this through have they?
It is early days but it is heartening that a poll for Channel Four News on Wednesday found that 50% of Scottish voters would vote SNP at the next general election if it could lead to Scotland leaving the UK and 51% if it led to negotiations on independence with Westminster.
Excluding dont know this would be closer to 60 %
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 25, 2022 17:25:14 GMT
Hopefully this will put to an end all those claims that Scotland is a sovereign country... Scotland is a sovereign country. A Sovereign country would not be reliant on the permission of England to do anything. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Nov 26, 2022 2:35:27 GMT
QE is done by the central bank (Bank of England), not the government. When you look at the £2.8 trillion debt, nearly all of that was spent on universally support things ie bank bailout, covid lockdowns, furlough, testing, vaccination and now cost of living / energy price support. The majority agreed with all those things, so the majority are going to have to suffer the hardship that level of debt is going to cause. You are fighting the wrong battle; we don't care if you become independent or not. Your battle is to convince the majority of Scots that independence is the right choice. Governments do not have money. The tax payer does. And the Bank of England' is not a bank. That is a misnomer. It is a regulatory authority that regulates the banking system in the UK. And lender of last resort. The lender of last resort matey is the tax payer. The Bank of England does not even have enough gold reserve to cover the PFI debt of £300 billion on NHS trusts in bankrupt England. Quantitative easing is a type of monetary policy in which a nation's central bank tries to increase the liquidity in its financial system, typically by purchasing long term government bonds from that nation's largest banks and stimulating economic growth by encouraging banks to lend or invest more freely. That liquidity eased the cost of borrowing which in the case of covid. Will be paid back by your grand kids grand kids grand kids. Since 2010 that will be around £800 billion. The UK because of the wankers in government have lost the AAA rating. And borrowing is now not cheap. Even the Germans could not destroy the UK economy when they flooded Europe with fake UK banknotes. That is basically what QE is. This bunch of wankers who you are a apologist for managed that in less than 44 days. In terms of the WE, as you rant you speak for everybody, in who does not care. The wankers in Westminster certainly care as they know at a minimum when Scotland goes its merry way bankrupt England will have to borrow at a minimum some £100 billion more than it does now. Just to stand still. So the WE do care. In the case of the Supreme Court. What the court judgement has concluded. The UK is not a voluntary Union. End of . And the Scots are not fighting the wrong battle. The devolution act simply needs changing. How very fascist that a wanker in Number 10, who was not even elected as a Prime Minister by the English, far less the Scots. Can dictate. And the SNP have won the last few elections on a indy ref mandate. And matey if the English, the sick man of Europe want to bankrupt themselves, as they cannot live within their means. Doing a bang up job on that. Nobody in Scotland gives a rats crap. It is dragging the Scots with them. That is the problem www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/17/nazis-fake-british-banknotes www.theneweuropean.co.uk/paul-mason-the-effects-of-brexit-on-britain/ Again, nobody cares what you think about the English, we just see you as yet another Anglophobe. You have to convince your fellow countrymen first, because right now we look at the polls and it is 50 / 50, so this strong mandate for independence that you are claiming only exists in your head. You aren't getting another vote unless those polls move massively in favour of independence, because any government will play on those polls and say another vote will create unnecessary division. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Nov 26, 2022 2:45:44 GMT
I think Scotland should be free to leave whenever they choose. I also wish they would allow an English independence vote then you definitely would be an independent country by default None of this matters though, because in the real world neither the Tories or Labour are going to allow indyref2 for the foreseeable future because they will be dealing with the post-COVID problems for at least a decade. Like I said, I think you will get the vote in the 2030s. I take on board some of what you say , but dont agree with other points.
First of all , if this is a democratic union , your first point should stand. We now see the european union is the far more democratic union than the british one on that point.
Your second point about english independence.....whats stopping you?
Your third point is largely irrelevant. No major politician or party at westminster has supported any country leaving the empire of old , but it still happened. 62 countires as far as im aware gained independence.
Personally im not a fan of sturgeon , and as salmond has said , this doesnt appear to be some master plan of hers , but more the law of unintended consequences in terms of the fury broguht about by the supreme court ruling.
I dont think the uk can survive as it stands to the 2030`s with the scottish and northern irish issues , welsh slowly waking up , and the divisions in england over brexit and much more.
Any government in power will just point to the polls, which are 50/50, which allows them to keep kicking the can further into the grass. What government is going to want the hassle of separation on their watch? So, unless the SNP win the popular vote at the next election, the status quo will be maintained. I specified the 2030s because this is when I believe PR will kick in. Labour will get a majority at the next election, but the one / two after might be very tight, which will encourage them to force through PR. This is going to force somebody into coalition with the SNP... and we know what that price will be. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 12:46:19 GMT
I take on board some of what you say , but dont agree with other points.
First of all , if this is a democratic union , your first point should stand. We now see the european union is the far more democratic union than the british one on that point.
Your second point about english independence.....whats stopping you?
Your third point is largely irrelevant. No major politician or party at westminster has supported any country leaving the empire of old , but it still happened. 62 countires as far as im aware gained independence.
Personally im not a fan of sturgeon , and as salmond has said , this doesnt appear to be some master plan of hers , but more the law of unintended consequences in terms of the fury broguht about by the supreme court ruling.
I dont think the uk can survive as it stands to the 2030`s with the scottish and northern irish issues , welsh slowly waking up , and the divisions in england over brexit and much more.
Any government in power will just point to the polls, which are 50/50, which allows them to keep kicking the can further into the grass. What government is going to want the hassle of separation on their watch? So, unless the SNP win the popular vote at the next election, the status quo will be maintained. I specified the 2030s because this is when I believe PR will kick in. Labour will get a majority at the next election, but the one / two after might be very tight, which will encourage them to force through PR. This is going to force somebody into coalition with the SNP... and we know what that price will be. The fact the polls are showing 50/50 is part of my wider point.
We arent talking a few thousand braveheart eccentrics on the edge of scottish society. Half of the popualtion of scotland , like northern ireland , want to leave the uk , and to me that is completely unsustainable.
Governments always try and kick the can into the long grass on any uncomfortable topic . The question is how long can the uk government sustain this policy? No uk government in history wanted to lose part of thier empire, but it happened , not just once, but 62 times over the years , including a former constituent part of the Uk that is now the republic of ireland.
I take your wider point , but this isnt quite true . There are many pro indy parties such as Alba and the greens who will be counted as a vote for the end of the uk.
Every election from now on in , the uk integrity such as it is , is going to be tested till everntually is breaks. The question is how long can the fragile status quo be maintained?
We already have froms of pr across the uk. The only part of these islands that dont is the small country that makes up 40 % of the land . England needs to catch up with the rest of us europeans , but so far , the cosy two party stitch up under fptp shows no sign of ending. Neither the red nor blue tories are in any hurry to stop thier comfortable gravey train are they ?
Starmer might do a bit of fobbingoff the labour membership , but wont do much in real terms.
I keep hearing about this mythical labour snp coalition , but im not sure what the significance is ? I can only dare hope labour are that eternally stupid to go into coaltion with the snp and break the uk up , but i very much doubt it.
They know they would be finished with the english electorate forever.
|
|
|
|
Post by borchester on Nov 26, 2022 13:00:29 GMT
Any government in power will just point to the polls, which are 50/50, which allows them to keep kicking the can further into the grass. What government is going to want the hassle of separation on their watch? So, unless the SNP win the popular vote at the next election, the status quo will be maintained. I specified the 2030s because this is when I believe PR will kick in. Labour will get a majority at the next election, but the one / two after might be very tight, which will encourage them to force through PR. This is going to force somebody into coalition with the SNP... and we know what that price will be. The fact the polls are showing 50/50 is part of my wider point.
We arent talking a few thousand braveheart eccentrics on the edge of scottish society. Half of the popualtion of scotland , like northern ireland , want to leave the uk , and to me that is completely unsustainable.
Governments always try and kick the can into the long grass on any uncomfortable topic . The question is how long can the uk government sustain this policy? No uk government in history wanted to lose part of thier empire, but it happened , not just once, but 62 times over the years , including a former constituent part of the Uk that is now the republic of ireland.
I take your wider point , but this isnt quite true . There are many pro indy parties such as Alba and the greens who will be counted as a vote for the end of the uk.
Every election from now on in , the uk integrity such as it is , is going to be tested till everntually is breaks. The question is how long can the fragile status quo be maintained?
We already have froms of pr across the uk. The only part of these islands that dont is the small country that makes up 40 % of the land . England needs to catch up with the rest of us europeans , but so far , the cosy two party stitch up under fptp shows no sign of ending. Neither the red nor blue tories are in any hurry to stop thier comfortable gravey train are they ?
Starmer might do a bit of fobbingoff the labour membership , but wont do much in real terms.
I keep hearing about this mythical labour snp coalition , but im not sure what the significance is ? I can only dare hope labour are that eternally stupid to go into coaltion with the snp and break the uk up , but i very much doubt it.
They know they would be finished with the english electorate forever.
Unfortunately, even the Labour party can't expect the Tories to be as completely arse numbingly stupid as they are at present, so Starmer will want to regain the party's Scottish heart lands. Sir Stodge is a bit of an opportunist, but even he must realise that a deal with the Nats will have to mean independence and ultimate reliance on the votes of the six or seven Islington lefties who usually vote for the Brothers and Sisters |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 13:11:41 GMT
The fact the polls are showing 50/50 is part of my wider point.
We arent talking a few thousand braveheart eccentrics on the edge of scottish society. Half of the popualtion of scotland , like northern ireland , want to leave the uk , and to me that is completely unsustainable.
Governments always try and kick the can into the long grass on any uncomfortable topic . The question is how long can the uk government sustain this policy? No uk government in history wanted to lose part of thier empire, but it happened , not just once, but 62 times over the years , including a former constituent part of the Uk that is now the republic of ireland.
I take your wider point , but this isnt quite true . There are many pro indy parties such as Alba and the greens who will be counted as a vote for the end of the uk.
Every election from now on in , the uk integrity such as it is , is going to be tested till everntually is breaks. The question is how long can the fragile status quo be maintained?
We already have froms of pr across the uk. The only part of these islands that dont is the small country that makes up 40 % of the land . England needs to catch up with the rest of us europeans , but so far , the cosy two party stitch up under fptp shows no sign of ending. Neither the red nor blue tories are in any hurry to stop thier comfortable gravey train are they ?
Starmer might do a bit of fobbingoff the labour membership , but wont do much in real terms.
I keep hearing about this mythical labour snp coalition , but im not sure what the significance is ? I can only dare hope labour are that eternally stupid to go into coaltion with the snp and break the uk up , but i very much doubt it.
They know they would be finished with the english electorate forever.
Unfortunately, even the Labour party can't expect the Tories to be as completely arse numbingly stupid as they are at present, so Starmer will want to regain the party's Scottish heart lands. Sir Stodge is a bit of an opportunist, but even he must realise that a deal with the Nats will have to mean independence and ultimate reliance on the votes of the six or seven Islington lefties who usually vote for the Brothers and Sisters pretty much borkie , which is why i keep telling my friends on this and other forums labour wont do deals with the snp.
They do deals with the tories in scotland , such is their hatred of the snp.
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 26, 2022 13:14:47 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2022 13:32:44 GMT
Scotland is a sovereign country. A Sovereign country would not be reliant on the permission of England to do anything. It is supposed to be a voluntary union. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 26, 2022 17:49:09 GMT
A Sovereign country would not be reliant on the permission of England to do anything. It is supposed to be a voluntary union. is it? - when are you having your referendum then? |
|
