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Post by Handyman on Nov 23, 2022 18:26:56 GMT
It's my opinion which I spelt out loud and clear, and you call that deceitful I call it straight talking out in the open not underhand My post was a reply to the Baron. I read it wrongly my mistake sorry about that |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 23, 2022 18:32:47 GMT
Why should any of that count now?
Historical precedent. Plus, it's morally right not to do business with a dictatorship. I agree 100% China has a dreadful Human Rights record going back years, they have murdered or imprisoned hundreds and thousands of their own people on a regular basis, brainwashing, their Politburo lie like cheap carpets anything to save face , when one looks at Communism over the years since the end of WW2, they have slaughtered millions. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 23, 2022 20:06:35 GMT
Historical precedent. Plus, it's morally right not to do business with a dictatorship. I agree 100% China has a dreadful Human Rights record going back years, they have murdered or imprisoned hundreds and thousands of their own people on a regular basis, brainwashing, their Politburo lie like cheap carpets anything to save face , when one looks at Communism over the years since the end of WW2, they have slaughtered millions. Find fault with everyone except you and your country eh?
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Post by Steve on Nov 23, 2022 20:28:21 GMT
The Calder Hall nuclear power station was built and operational in three years. We're capable of doing this ourselves we just need a decent government rather than shit governments. . . Nope. Calder Hall was built rapidly but only because we needed the weapons grade product that was its prime objective. It was hopelessly inefficient at power generation and suffered from the same metal degradation that other high neutron flux reactors have so its life wasn't long but its decommissioning will be as long and expensive and fraught as other better reactors. And maybe you're unaware that the UK sold all its nuclear reactor intellectual property (of both Magnox and AGR reactors) ultimately to the French so we are not 'capable of doing this ourselves' The reactor design we need is the CANDU (a PWR variant) but for unknown reasons, Canada declined to bid for UK power needs so we were stuffed and hence left to choose between French or USA designs. And the French were deeply linked to China. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 23, 2022 21:01:11 GMT
I was unaware of that.
BUT, I don't want to do business with China because of their human rights record their lack of democracy, and their militarism.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 23, 2022 22:07:58 GMT
For the life of me I cannot see why we are buying foreign reactors from anyone. Rolls Royce have a perfectly acceptable small reactor so just dot them around the country.
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Post by Steve on Nov 24, 2022 0:04:03 GMT
For the life of me I cannot see why we are buying foreign reactors from anyone. Rolls Royce have a perfectly acceptable small reactor so just dot them around the country. How do you know it's 'perfectly acceptable'? They haven't completed the design and the design analysis hasn't been completed and despite £Mhundreds of investment of our tax money they haven't built one, in fact they don't reckon the first one will be running this side of 2030 and that will only be a concept demonstration unit. But hey ho you want to bet our energy future on this. |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 24, 2022 8:14:01 GMT
I agree 100% China has a dreadful Human Rights record going back years, they have murdered or imprisoned hundreds and thousands of their own people on a regular basis, brainwashing, their Politburo lie like cheap carpets anything to save face , when one looks at Communism over the years since the end of WW2, they have slaughtered millions. Find fault with everyone except you and your country eh?
There are many things wrong with my country which need putting right, how is your planet doing? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 24, 2022 12:23:56 GMT
The Calder Hall nuclear power station was built and operational in three years. We're capable of doing this ourselves we just need a decent government rather than shit governments. . . Nope. Calder Hall was built rapidly but only because we needed the weapons grade product that was its prime objective. It was hopelessly inefficient at power generation and suffered from the same metal degradation that other high neutron flux reactors have so its life wasn't long but its decommissioning will be as long and expensive and fraught as other better reactors. And maybe you're unaware that the UK sold all its nuclear reactor intellectual property (of both Magnox and AGR reactors) ultimately to the French so we are not 'capable of doing this ourselves' The reactor design we need is the CANDU (a PWR variant) but for unknown reasons, Canada declined to bid for UK power needs so we were stuffed and hence left to choose between French or USA designs. And the French were deeply linked to China. Good information^
Yes China is on its third generation reactors. They have put a load of R & D in themselves and have a twin reactor in Karachi. It was delivered on time.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 24, 2022 13:00:03 GMT
The Baron is right. The people who designed and built British nuclear reactors are all either dead or long retired. Its most recent nuclear reactor, Sizewell B, was designed in the 1980s. It's another industrial skill-set and capability that successive governments have allowed to wither and die in the dogmatic belief that the 'international market' will provide for all Britain's future needs in nuclear generation as well as every other capital goods sector.
Where the Baron has it wrong however is in insisting that China is a suitable 'partner' for any western country, especially in strategically important fields like energy and communications.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 24, 2022 13:30:17 GMT
The Baron is right. The people who designed and built British nuclear reactors are all either dead or long retired. Its most recent nuclear reactor, Sizewell B, was designed in the 1980s. It's another industrial skill-set and capability that successive governments have allowed to wither and die in the dogmatic belief that the 'international market' will provide for all Britain's future needs in nuclear generation as well as every other capital goods sector. Where the Baron has it wrong however is in insisting that China is a suitable 'partner' for any western country, especially in strategically important fields like energy and communications. Why are they unsuitable for us, but over in Karachi the Pakistanis are full of praise for their new reactors? Is it because we want the freedom to insult them at any time without consequence?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 24, 2022 13:33:05 GMT
China's strategic interests run counter to our own. It would be madness to assume otherwise.
Besides which there is nothing the Chinese can offer that is not available elsewhere.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 24, 2022 13:56:28 GMT
China's strategic interests run counter to our own. It would be madness to assume otherwise. Besides which there is nothing the Chinese can offer that is not available elsewhere. Explain because that sounds like politician's bullshit to me. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 24, 2022 14:27:29 GMT
It's quite straightforward really. China has aspirations to global superpower status at which point they will no longer have to play by our rules.
It's not in our interest that they should be encouraged to do so.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 24, 2022 15:05:27 GMT
It's quite straightforward really. China has aspirations to global superpower status at which point they will no longer have to play by our rules. It's not in our interest that they should be encouraged to do so. The successful rule over the failures. We do not rule, and besides what do you hope to get from your rules? Without basic survival stuff like fuel and energy we are going to end up about as well off as Ethiopia.
And the thing above all else is what are you afraid of? supposing we got them to build our stations, then how can that do anything but be beneficial? Is is a pride problem? I suspect it is.
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