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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 12, 2024 14:45:19 GMT
So refuting your point is desultory not picking band lack of response is support? A couple of half-baked one-liners is not considered a refutation in any school of debating I'm familiar with.
Is it the best you can offer?
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 15:14:02 GMT
So refuting your point is desultory not picking band lack of response is support? A couple of half-baked one-liners is not considered a refutation in any school of debating I'm familiar with.
Is it the best you can offer?
Claiming that the US is a cultural wasteland , failing to support your claim then bitching when your claim is refuted is probably the norm on the ‘ school of debate ‘ that you are familiar with then . The fact that it could be refuted in a ‘ one liner’ reflects on you far more than me .
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 15:26:24 GMT
I got a similar response when I remarked to my American boss that the British were resigned to playing the role of the Greeks in the new Imperium. These Americans represent the new Roman empire, and we Britons, like the Greeks of old, must teach them how to make it go. MacMillan . How delusional .
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 12, 2024 16:08:47 GMT
A couple of half-baked one-liners is not considered a refutation in any school of debating I'm familiar with.
Is it the best you can offer?
Claiming that the US is a cultural wasteland , failing to support your claim then bitching when your claim is refuted is probably the norm on the ‘ school of debate ‘ that you are familiar with then . The fact that it could be refuted in a ‘ one liner’ reflects on you far more than me . I know how much you like to turn threads into a personal joust when the subject matter gets a little too difficult but I'm sorry to disappoint you, on this occasion I won't be taking a ride on the Bentley-go-round.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 16:09:50 GMT
Claiming that the US is a cultural wasteland , failing to support your claim then bitching when your claim is refuted is probably the norm on the ‘ school of debate ‘ that you are familiar with then . The fact that it could be refuted in a ‘ one liner’ reflects on you far more than me . I know how much you like to turn threads into a personal joust when the subject matter gets a little too difficult but I'm sorry to disappoint you, on this occasion I won't be taking a ride on the Bentley-go-round. Why is refuting your exaggeration a ‘ personal joust’?
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 12, 2024 16:10:38 GMT
Will nobody leap to the defence of American cultural hegemony?
What about Hollywood? That's a cultural asset that we can all accept as world-beating, isn't it?
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 16:10:54 GMT
I know how much you like to turn threads into a personal joust when the subject matter gets a little too difficult but I'm sorry to disappoint you, on this occasion I won't be taking a ride on the Bentley-go-round. Why is refuting your exaggeration a ‘ personal joust’? To claim the US is a cultural desert is risible .
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 16:11:54 GMT
Will nobody leap to the defence of American cultural hegemony? Ah! From a cultural desert to ‘ cultural hegemony’. lol.
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 12, 2024 16:21:22 GMT
Cultural hegemony isn't the same thing as cultural excellence.
Compare and contrast:
and
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Post by Orac on Apr 12, 2024 16:25:58 GMT
Will nobody leap to the defence of American cultural hegemony?
What about Hollywood? That's a cultural asset that we can all accept as world-beating, isn't it?
I was about to step in and mention this - A decade ago, I would have been a staunch defender of the US as a relatively new player and one that had set up the pillars of a new form - the form of the future? Up until a decade ago..that is Hollywood is now a talent-less farce - more akin to a care home than and artistic endeavor. The change in direction has been astonishing and America has little else.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 16:28:31 GMT
Cultural hegemony isn't the same thing as cultural excellence. A cultural desert cannot have cultural hegemony. Whatever hegemony it has couldn’t be cultural.
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 16:31:13 GMT
Will nobody leap to the defence of American cultural hegemony?
What about Hollywood? That's a cultural asset that we can all accept as world-beating, isn't it?
I was about to step in and mention this - A decade ago, I would have been a staunch defender of the US as a relatively new player and one that had set up the pillars of a new form - the form of the future? Up until a decade ago..that is Hollywood is now a talent-less farce - more akin to a care home than and artistic endeavor. The change in direction has been astonishing and America has little else. Imo the best US work is one streaming channels now. Hollywood is dying from terminal woke. As for culture , that depends on how sniffy you are when defining culture .
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Post by Dan Dare on Apr 12, 2024 17:01:49 GMT
Imo the best US work is one streaming channels now. Hollywood is dying from terminal woke. As for culture , that depends on how sniffy you are when defining culture . Yes I believe you're correct, the streamers rule now.
They are what James Meek in the London Review of Books refers to as 'New TV'. Old TV being the networks that have been basically holed beneath the waterline.
Meek cautions though that the 'New TV' paradigm may not be in the best interest of cultural production in satellite territories like the UK:
"The new TV/old TV boundary looks even less clear-cut if you take countries other than the US into account. How do you fit Rainer Werner Fassbinder’s World on a Wire (1973) or Edgar Reitz’s Heimat (1984-2013) into the schema? Netflix’s new Arabic, Hindi or Japanese shows make you wonder what they were watching in Damascus or Osaka while America was enduring The Dukes of Hazzard. In Britain, we saw Bob Peck as the policeman Ronald Craven in the BBC’s Edge of Darkness briefly kiss his murdered daughter’s vibrator when going through her things: a very post-network moment, but we were watching it on ad-free broadcast TV, in a four-channel world, in 1985. Will Smith, the British lead writer of Slow Horses (2022-), namechecks Edge of Darkness as an influence, along with The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire and Deadwood, but also I, Claudius from 1976 and the recent Happy Valley (2014-23).
The old global TV landscape was one in which American TV pushed out domineeringly into the world, but national TV ecosystems like Britain’s had autonomy, both cultural and financial. The current relationship, especially among the English-speaking countries, is more amorphous. British writers like Armando Iannucci (Veep, Avenue 5) and Jesse Armstrong, who created Succession, went to the US having made their names in British TV with The Thick of It and Peep Show; Michaela Coel, who created and had the lead role in I May Destroy You (2020) for the BBC, became one of a handful of Black women to win a primetime writing Emmy after her show ran on HBO. British studios and technicians can barely keep up with demand. Game of Thrones was an American series, made for first broadcast on HBO, based on an American book, with American lead writers, but most of the cast was British, and the production was based in Northern Ireland. Still, the BBC’s UK-confined streamer, iPlayer, looks threadbare these days. Behind Netflix, the other American streamers are moving in. When more and more TV comes streamed, British shows can get easier access to American audiences, and hence to American money, but American shows can get easier access to British audiences, and they were made with American money to begin with. In absolute terms, Britain isn’t the 51st state, but in TV terms, it kind of is – just to the north-east of Maine, a large and valued tile in the greater American entertainment production mosaic. It will have its own shows, with its own subject matter, locations, actors, writers, directors, but it will be increasingly less likely to own them."
Meek had an earlier remark about Game of Thrones that I thought quite apropos:
"Compare this to another HBO hit, the fantasy epic Game of Thrones (2011-19), which uses cable TV’s relative freedom from censorship not so much to render human complexity as to amp up the gore and show breasts and bottoms when the story doesn’t need them. Emilia Clarke, who plays Daenerys Targaryen, went along with the ‘fucking ton of nudity’ in the first season. ‘Eventually, however, she began to wonder if so much nudity was essential, and became less obliging,’ Biskind writes. He quotes her: ‘I’ve had fights on the set before where I’m like, “No, the sheet stays up,” and they’re like “You don’t wanna disappoint your Game of Thrones fans.” And I’m like, “Fuck you.”’
No question the show had all the high-quality boobage and gratuitous violence that the 14-year-old boy in all of us could wish for, but is it 'culture'?
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Post by Bentley on Apr 12, 2024 17:49:56 GMT
Imo the best US work is one streaming channels now. Hollywood is dying from terminal woke. As for culture , that depends on how sniffy you are when defining culture . Yes I believe you're correct, the streamers rule now.
They are what James Meek in the London Review of Books refers to as 'New TV'. Old TV being the networks that have been basically holed beneath the waterline.
Meek cautions though that the 'New TV' paradigm may not be in the best interest of cultural production in satellite territories like the UK:
"The new TV/old TV boundary looks even less clear-cut if you take countries other than the US into account. How do you fit Rainer Werner Fassbinder’s World on a Wire (1973) or Edgar Reitz’s Heimat (1984-2013) into the schema? Netflix’s new Arabic, Hindi or Japanese shows make you wonder what they were watching in Damascus or Osaka while America was enduring The Dukes of Hazzard. In Britain, we saw Bob Peck as the policeman Ronald Craven in the BBC’s Edge of Darkness briefly kiss his murdered daughter’s vibrator when going through her things: a very post-network moment, but we were watching it on ad-free broadcast TV, in a four-channel world, in 1985. Will Smith, the British lead writer of Slow Horses (2022-), namechecks Edge of Darkness as an influence, along with The Sopranos, The Shield, The Wire and Deadwood, but also I, Claudius from 1976 and the recent Happy Valley (2014-23).
The old global TV landscape was one in which American TV pushed out domineeringly into the world, but national TV ecosystems like Britain’s had autonomy, both cultural and financial. The current relationship, especially among the English-speaking countries, is more amorphous. British writers like Armando Iannucci (Veep, Avenue 5) and Jesse Armstrong, who created Succession, went to the US having made their names in British TV with The Thick of It and Peep Show; Michaela Coel, who created and had the lead role in I May Destroy You (2020) for the BBC, became one of a handful of Black women to win a primetime writing Emmy after her show ran on HBO. British studios and technicians can barely keep up with demand. Game of Thrones was an American series, made for first broadcast on HBO, based on an American book, with American lead writers, but most of the cast was British, and the production was based in Northern Ireland. Still, the BBC’s UK-confined streamer, iPlayer, looks threadbare these days. Behind Netflix, the other American streamers are moving in. When more and more TV comes streamed, British shows can get easier access to American audiences, and hence to American money, but American shows can get easier access to British audiences, and they were made with American money to begin with. In absolute terms, Britain isn’t the 51st state, but in TV terms, it kind of is – just to the north-east of Maine, a large and valued tile in the greater American entertainment production mosaic. It will have its own shows, with its own subject matter, locations, actors, writers, directors, but it will be increasingly less likely to own them."
Meek had an earlier remark about Game of Thrones that I thought quite apropos:
"Compare this to another HBO hit, the fantasy epic Game of Thrones (2011-19), which uses cable TV’s relative freedom from censorship not so much to render human complexity as to amp up the gore and show breasts and bottoms when the story doesn’t need them. Emilia Clarke, who plays Daenerys Targaryen, went along with the ‘fucking ton of nudity’ in the first season. ‘Eventually, however, she began to wonder if so much nudity was essential, and became less obliging,’ Biskind writes. He quotes her: ‘I’ve had fights on the set before where I’m like, “No, the sheet stays up,” and they’re like “You don’t wanna disappoint your Game of Thrones fans.” And I’m like, “Fuck you.”’
No question the show had all the high-quality boobage and gratuitous violence that the 14-year-old boy in all of us could wish for, but is it 'culture'?
Does full frontal nudity , violence and sex scenes mean that a body of work isn’t culture ? I think the scenes were well placed and added to the narrative . Game of thrones was more than just a tit, Fanny and gore fest.
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Post by dodgydave on Apr 13, 2024 1:53:06 GMT
America is a relatively young country, so of course it is bound to be lagging behind Europe, Africa and Asia in terms of heritage sites.
However, America absolutely dominates Film, TV, Music and popular culture.
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