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Post by Pacifico on Oct 24, 2022 21:29:58 GMT
At the risk of repeating myself yet again, it didn't matter what brexit supporters wanted as remainers were in a majority in Parliament. Awkwardly for you none of the votes Hansard has recorded reflect that imagined position. Not sure what your point is. If you are saying that the Remain majority in Parliament threw away any chance of a soft brexit in their pursuit of rerun of the referendum I would agree with you. |
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Post by Steve on Oct 24, 2022 21:34:28 GMT
Awkwardly for you none of the votes Hansard has recorded reflect that imagined position. Not sure what your point is. If you are saying that the Remain majority in Parliament threw away any chance of a soft brexit in their pursuit of rerun of the referendum I would agree with you. No because after June 23rd 2016 there was not a Remain majority in Parliament - as you full well know and the recorded votes demonstrate. Those facts may be awkward for you but it's always best to embrace reality. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 24, 2022 21:39:56 GMT
Not sure what your point is. If you are saying that the Remain majority in Parliament threw away any chance of a soft brexit in their pursuit of rerun of the referendum I would agree with you. No because after June 23rd 2016 there was not a Remain majority in Parliament - as you full well know and the recorded votes demonstrate. Those facts may be awkward for you but it's always best to embrace reality. Factually wrong |
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Post by Steve on Oct 24, 2022 21:43:31 GMT
Well feel free to show us those votes that went for Remain then
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 24, 2022 22:00:44 GMT
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Post by jonksy on Oct 24, 2022 22:05:01 GMT
I'm sorry, you seem to have mistaken me for someone who values your opinion. Far from it. We were taken ito the eu under a blatant lie as you well know. You have shredded nothing apart from your own integrity. |
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Post by Steve on Oct 24, 2022 22:18:22 GMT
Oh FFS Jonksy you keep repeating this BS here, there and probably everywhere and now you can't even post properly
See if you can get a serious poster to endorse your shite about FCO 30/1048
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Post by Steve on Oct 24, 2022 22:21:07 GMT
Or in short you have failed miserably to show that remain won any vote in the House after June 23rd 2016 so your 'At the risk of repeating myself yet again, it didn't matter what brexit supporters wanted as remainers were in a majority in Parliament.' about supposedly blocking an EEA/EFTA option was complete made up rubbish. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 7:36:05 GMT
To be fair pacifico , norwegian politicians said the uk economy was to big to join EFTA , and theywould veto the uk membership of it time and again.
fully agree , and whatever your stance on brexit for or against , this is something that will tar remainers in england for many years to come. Crazy stuff. REmember keir starmer was the chief architect of overturning brexit in the commons , and of course in labour during their disasterous stance on brexit up to the 2019 GE.
If that man wins the next general election , he will set england on fire , mark my words with his brexit bullshit of making brexit work. Thats starmer code for doing dirty deals behind the brussells bike shed and thinking the plebs are buttoned up the back.
We scots are doing our bit to make sure people dont vote him or his party , with 70 % rejecting him at the ballot box.
I know that Norway had reservations but had we decided on EFTA that would have suited the EU and pressure would have come to bear. FWIW Switzerland was quite happy for the UK to join EFTA
ok , im not going to go into a big argument , but i fully remember Norway politicians claiming they would veto the uk...
Norwegian politicians reject UK's Norway-plus Brexit plan
Norwegian MP says it is not in either country’s interest for UK to use trade agreement
Norway is threatening to derail Brexit
That is because the Nordic state's European affairs minister, Elizabeth Vik Aspaker, said her government could block the UK from trying to rejoin the single market, as it's not in Norway's interests.
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 7:38:42 GMT
Theres every logic.
The brexit referendum rules were made before the game was played. You dont toss the table up in the air because you lose the game of cards and demand to start again do you?
Democracy is fairly simple , unles you are a bitter twisted anglo remainer. You run a campaign for your side , you then vote on it , and 50 +1 wins the day. Once the result is implemented , then the adults normally agree a new campaign can begin again for the next vote.
What you dont do in any demcoracy is run a vote , not implement the result , and then try every dirty trick in the book to overturn the previous result .
That way is the way to violence and civil unrest.
If you cant stand the rules of democracy ,and are a bad loser , then dont partake in the gamble in the first fucking place. Its not diffcult stuff.
I waited patiently to get to your point but apart from swearing and bluster there doesn’t seem to be a coherent one. Let’s try to calm down a little and think logically. If sometime after the referendum before we actually left - let’s say in September 2017 - the majority of the electorate had decided that a mistake had been made, would it have been more legitimate democratically to follow the will of the people in 2016 or the will of the people in 2017? No. Please wait patiently again , and i will patiently re explain demcoracy for the hard of understanding.
You hold the vote , enact the result , then are free to campaign again.
I have every sympathy for brexiters after the way you treated them despite democratically winning a referendum , even though im not brexiter myself.
There is no lower life form than an anti democrat. Dont play the game if you cant handle the rules.
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 7:41:39 GMT
Theres every logic.
The brexit referendum rules were made before the game was played. You dont toss the table up in the air because you lose the game of cards and demand to start again do you?
Democracy is fairly simple , unles you are a bitter twisted anglo remainer. You run a campaign for your side , you then vote on it , and 50 +1 wins the day. Once the result is implemented , then the adults normally agree a new campaign can begin again for the next vote.
What you dont do in any demcoracy is run a vote , not implement the result , and then try every dirty trick in the book to overturn the previous result .
That way is the way to violence and civil unrest.
If you cant stand the rules of democracy ,and are a bad loser , then dont partake in the gamble in the first fucking place. Its not diffcult stuff.
I hope this country never uses referendum again, but if it does there would need to be clear rules and guidelines in order to not repeat the shoddy imitation of a referendum of 2016. There was clear rules and a guideline.
Sorry you dont like democracy when it goes against you , but sometimes you have to accept people dont agree with your views.
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Post by jonksy on Oct 25, 2022 7:47:04 GMT
Oh FFS Jonksy you keep repeating this BS here, there and probably everywhere and now you can't even post properly See if you can get a serious poster to endorse your shite about FCO 30/1048See if you can get a serious poster to refute it.
Grow a pair for once and admit that the UK electorate were taken into your beloved eu under no more than the lie of we were only joining a trading bloc ONLY. Of course they would have had a job to sell their BS to even some of the brain dead if they had of told the truth that we would lose our rights, our own indentity and our sovereignty. Even you couldn't flog that fact off. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 7:47:37 GMT
I waited patiently to get to your point but apart from swearing and bluster there doesn’t seem to be a coherent one. Let’s try to calm down a little and think logically. If sometime after the referendum before we actually left - let’s say in September 2017 - the majority of the electorate had decided that a mistake had been made, would it have been more legitimate democratically to follow the will of the people in 2016 or the will of the people in 2017?
Democracy doesn't blow with the wind every time a gut feeling changes. It does unfortunately for remoaners.
There was a clear and set strategy for remoaners to take the uk back into the EU after they lost the referendum fair and square. They had to take their medicine leave the EU , then were free to campaign to rejoin.
Instead , we saw much wailing and gnashing of teeth , and refusal to accept their medicine. With the predictable result of the 2019 GE landslide and subsequent medicine being pushed down remoaners throats.
You cant tell them. Imagine being scared of a democratic decision so much that you want to throw the whole of democracy up in the air to get your own way .?
They hardened many attitudes against them , some who were at first sympathetic , andtoday still look like petulant children unable to function in a civilsed manner.
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Post by dappy on Oct 25, 2022 8:09:26 GMT
I note you avoided the question you were asked. No surprise there. your argument falls apart.
It was of course perfectly legitimate for anyone to campaign to democratically change a referendum result if the electorate can be persuaded to. It is the very essence of democracy. Of course Farage announced that was precisely what he intended to do when he thought he had lost on the night of the count.
Regardless we are now where we are and the damage we did to ourselves is increasingly clear. No way out now though.
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Post by thomas on Oct 25, 2022 8:10:08 GMT
Awkwardly for you none of the votes Hansard has recorded reflect that imagined position. Not sure what your point is. If you are saying that the Remain majority in Parliament threw away any chance of a soft brexit in their pursuit of rerun of the referendum I would agree with you. That BRINO pig in a poke scam attempt was one of the most embaressing things i have witnessed in my life. To actually believe they thought people would buy into that ?
Customs union just not "the" customs union and all that cac. Keir starmer was at the head of the anti democratic remoan vanguard and as you know a leopard never changes its spots.
Be interesting to see if people are willing to put their faith in a man at the ballot box who was prepared to piss all over 62 % of his own brexiter labour constituencies in 2019 , never mind his abysmally failed attempt to push a remainer on the brexiters of hartlepool in a by election.
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