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Post by Orac on Dec 5, 2022 11:23:36 GMT
I think there is a good argument to significantly restrict the franchise.
Nothing outrageous - ie Over the age 0f 21, 10k in a bank account, not claiming benefits and a £200 payment for each vote (one vote each maximum of course).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 12:57:50 GMT
Unelected people making Parliamentary decisions is clearly very wrong, and its long overdue for reform, no one can argue against this principle. What makes it worse, is the fact that many of these unelected people are appointed out of FAVOUR in return for loyalty or assistance to either particular Prime Ministers, or particular political parties. Under the present archaic, antiquated and out of date system, certain clergy have the automatic right to sit in the House Of Lords, but ONLY clergy from one particular faith and one particular Church - the way to describe this is RIDICULOUS. There is no argument for keeping the present upper house the way it is, and Kier Starmer is absolutely correct in bringing the House of Lords into the 21st century. Rubbish. No one should be surprised at Browns proposal. It is nothing short of a charter for minorities. Remember this - www.politicalite.com/lab/labour/labours-cover-up-gordon-browns-government-urged-police-not-to-investigate-muslim-grooming-gangs/Gordon Brown has zero credibility. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting that in the very first sentence of the - Politicalite - article, it states that "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged" Something else thats interesting is how - Politicalite - is described by some as a "far right fake news website" It is believed that when the fine detail is announced, it will emphasise representation from the regions and nations of the United Kingdom, and that the ridiculous number of members will be greatly reduced. If the American upper House of 100 members works well for a nation of 330 Million, then why do we need 800 members of the House Of Lords for a country of 68 Million. ? |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 5, 2022 13:09:54 GMT
Only hereditory peers should inhabit the Lords, that way avoids political influence.
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Post by dappy on Dec 5, 2022 13:46:37 GMT
The report has now been published. It is actually a little vague on HoL. The idea to reduce it to around 200, more clearly define its role and make it more independent of Prime Ministers rewarding favours and the elimination of all the titles and pageantry bollocks all seem fairly uncontroversial (?). But precise detail of how members would be chosen remains unclear - and that seems critical.
Overall the report advocates moving more decision making nearer to the people seems a good plan - the mayors concept seems to working pretty well.
A good start perhaps to improving the way we govern and are seen to govern the country.
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Post by see2 on Dec 5, 2022 20:47:13 GMT
Only hereditory peers should inhabit the Lords, that way avoids political influence. Why would you think or imply that Hereditary Peers would be politically unbiased? |
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Post by see2 on Dec 5, 2022 20:55:32 GMT
The taxation of land values. I haven't heard the labour party talking about that since Tony Blair and his gigantic property portfolio I believe there is a nasty piece of Tory propaganda here^^. Blair's Property portfolio was built in 2009 after he had left office. |
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Post by borchester on Dec 5, 2022 20:55:43 GMT
Only hereditory peers should inhabit the Lords, that way avoids political influence. Why would you think or imply that Hereditary Peers would be politically unbiased? I know a couple.
Nice enough but they are so inbreed that they should not be let out alone.
I think that what Toreador means is that most of them are so gaga they can be safely ignored.
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Post by see2 on Dec 5, 2022 21:00:52 GMT
The taxation of land values. I haven't heard the labour party talking about that since Tony Blair and his gigantic property portfolio One thing Blairites tend to have in common with Tories is naked self interest. It is one of the things we on the left despise them for. You despise them for living in the real world despite the fact that they did more for working people than any Labour government since Clem Attlee's? Left-wingers deserve the Tory domination that plagues this country. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 5, 2022 21:52:02 GMT
Blair's Property portfolio was built in 2009 after he had left office. I don't see why you being squeamish about the exact timing. Is there something wrong with building up a gigantic property portfolio while leading the socialist party? |
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Post by Orac on Dec 5, 2022 21:55:24 GMT
You despise them for living in the real world despite the fact that they did more for working people than any Labour government since Clem Attlee's? I'd be intrigued to hear your objections. Are you against policies that might have stopped stopped Tony Blair building a gigantic property portfolio? Left-wingers deserve the Tory domination that plagues this country. It's mostly down to Labour's perverse stance on immigration. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 5, 2022 22:04:00 GMT
Blair's Property portfolio was built in 2009 after he had left office. I don't see why you being squeamish about the exact timing. Is there something wrong with building up a gigantic property portfolio while leading the socialist party? Did not Cherie Blair buy a flat for her son Euan through alleged links to some fraudster whilst Tony was in office and have to make a speech. In fact I think it was two flats. Seems like teh start of a property Empire and I believe that was 2002 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 22:25:41 GMT
One thing Blairites tend to have in common with Tories is naked self interest. It is one of the things we on the left despise them for. You despise them for living in the real world despite the fact that they did more for working people than any Labour government since Clem Attlee's? Left-wingers deserve the Tory domination that plagues this country. You don't spend all your time fighting us and blocking us and expelling us and then expect our support. You have treated us like enemies. Why should we support you? As for doing more for working people you totally lost touch with the working class and came to believe we no longer existed. You did nothing to rein in the growth of zero hours type shit, nor did you do much for us on housing. After 13 years in office landlords could still charge whatever they wanted and evict tenants for no reason. And you built less council houses than Thatcher. You also opened the flood gate to eastern Europe and did nothing to prevent employers exploiting cheap labour from there to drive down working class pay. And when we complained about that you called us racists. So don't give me all that guff about how much you did for working people, or compare yourselves to Attlee. You drove working people into the arms of Brexit. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 5, 2022 22:40:09 GMT
You despise them for living in the real world despite the fact that they did more for working people than any Labour government since Clem Attlee's? Left-wingers deserve the Tory domination that plagues this country. You don't spend all your time fighting us and blocking us and expelling us and then expect our support. You have treated us like enemies. Why should we support you? As for doing more for working people you totally lost touch with the working class and came to believe we no longer existed. You did nothing to rein in the growth of zero hours type shit, nor did you do much for us on housing. After 13 years in office landlords could still charge whatever they wanted and evict tenants for no reason. And you built less council houses than Thatcher. You also opened the flood gate to eastern Europe and did nothing to prevent employers exploiting cheap labour from there to drive down working class pay. And when we complained about that you called us racists. So don't give me all that guff about how much you did for working people, or compare yourselves to Attlee. You drove working people into the arms of Brexit. Wasn't that a Labour policy at the begining of the Blair government and, after a while, did he not say it would be dealt with? |
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Post by borchester on Dec 5, 2022 22:55:36 GMT
I think land should not be privately owned but held in trust by the government on behalf of the people. There should not be the ability to sell it but a one off minimal lease payment should be applied at a rate to cover only ther incurred costs. It sounds to me like we have some similar views on this subject. The problem with all such notions is making sure the government powers are properly, irretrievably constricted. No, the problem is that should any government attempt to enact such legislation it would be promptly slung out on its arse |
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Post by see2 on Dec 6, 2022 8:49:38 GMT
Why would you think or imply that Hereditary Peers would be politically unbiased? I know a couple.
Nice enough but they are so inbreed that they should not be let out alone.
I think that what Toreador means is that most of them are so gaga they can be safely ignored.
One of the reasons Blair sent them packing was that nice or not they were mainly Tory minded voters. |
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