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Post by sheepy on Mar 2, 2024 16:00:36 GMT
No thomas, it has never changed so quickly which is basically a technological revolution. I didn't say if Dans nostalgia which is still within one lifetime should be remembered as a better time for living in the UK, but it certainly did have its merits. Which is why I added quickly because I realised somebody would be along with some excuse. A little late on this occasion. I fully disagree. Both scotland ,and England , along with the rest of the world has and always will change. If you are specifically talking about immigration , then it's a staple of every point in human history. People move. The fact your politicians are ignoring your wishes regarding immigration is only something you can change . To do that , you need to stop voting in the same parties every elections then moaning how things never change politically. You won't stop immigration , but you can certainly control it better. I never said it wouldn't change, I said never has it changed so quickly, which a few of us knew about as far back as the late 70's what would be coming, there is a dark side of that which has been very demanding keeping it in check which has now become a political battle and about the value of everything. As well as who controls what. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 2, 2024 16:15:35 GMT
I fully disagree. Both scotland ,and England , along with the rest of the world has and always will change. If you are specifically talking about immigration , then it's a staple of every point in human history. People move. The fact your politicians are ignoring your wishes regarding immigration is only something you can change . To do that , you need to stop voting in the same parties every elections then moaning how things never change politically. You won't stop immigration , but you can certainly control it better. I never said it wouldn't change, I said never has it changed so quickly, which a few of us knew about as far back as the late 70's what would be coming, there is a dark side of that which has been very demanding keeping it in check which has now become a political battle and about the value of everything. As well as who controls what. I know what you said , and im disagreeing with you. Ive said , and many others have said , the British are in meltdown because their world is coming to an end. As all things do. Thats all that is left now , navel gazing about a period long gone , never to return , and meltdown about what to do about it. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 2, 2024 16:21:40 GMT
Whats wrong with that then sandy? Does the polish girl on the Tesco checkout upset your bwitishness? No but making the Supermarket Polish catering for Poles, the shops catering for various different ethnic groups means that Multiculturalism in part destroys a cohesive society and it is the community that is lost that is the issue. I pointed out that many and varied were the other groups in my Scottish village but they were all part of one community. Bring on more polish shops I say. If multiculturalism brings about the end of disgusting British sectarianism in scotland and orange marches , for example , this can only be a good thing no? aye sandy , the cake analogy regarding a country means the country is made up of many differing ingredients , as it always has been. I would rather have a polish scot cheering on my country , then a British scot sneer at it. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 16:26:32 GMT
As a scot , the first thing im noticing is you appear to be conflating englishness , a national identity , with britishness , an imperial construct encompassing many different national identities. If you can't get the very name of the identity you are aiming for in your rose tinted glass navel gazing on some cherry picked nirvana period of history , then how can we take you serious in the first place? I dont believe you can turn back the clock , and to my mind your post is reflective of the very crises of identity , and massive post imperial decline we are witnessing in britishness today. Until England gets over its post imperial delusions , rediscovers its national identity again , and finds peace in that identity as a small European country , then pondering the ever increasing crises of pride , decline and identity in the 21st century will be the norm , while gazing blissfully back on some so called period of the Elysian Fields that in reality never existed . Andrew neil , among many other writers , thinkers and journalists , have written about this extensively , in Neils case only yesterday in his mail column. how the uk is in massive post imperial decline , unhappy , drifting aimlessly and how the political elite dont have a clue what to do about it. Some blame Brexit , others the political elite themselves and their failure on many issues , but these are mere symptoms of decline rather than the cause of that post imperial decline. You can't keep wist fully looking backwards .The empire for better or worse is gone , and it's not coming back. Same as the fifties and sixties . Feeling better now after that canter-out on your favourite hobby-horse Tommo? |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 16:31:32 GMT
No but making the Supermarket Polish catering for Poles, the shops catering for various different ethnic groups means that Multiculturalism in part destroys a cohesive society and it is the community that is lost that is the issue. I pointed out that many and varied were the other groups in my Scottish village but they were all part of one community. Bring on more polish shops I say. If multiculturalism brings about the end of disgusting British sectarianism in scotland and orange marches , for example , this can only be a good thing no? aye sandy , the cake analogy regarding a country means the country is made up of many differing ingredients , as it always has been. I would rather have a polish scot cheering on my country , then a British scot sneer at it. British sectarianism which gets its biggest support in NI and the West of Scotland is a product of Multiculturalism. Multiculturalism will not eradicate it all it will do is change the focus. When Scotland are playing Poland most Polish Scots will be cheering on Poland however us British Scots will always cheer on Scotland. I am not sure where teh 'sneering' reference arises. However if the basic ingredients in a cake are not present in large enough numbers in a cake recipe no matter how many other ingredients you add it will all fall apart as you take it from the oven. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 16:34:04 GMT
Anybody else noticed how nobody ever lives in a golden era, they just remember one? I thought baby boomers were blamed for having it easy and pulling up the ladder. If that is true we must have lived in a golden era. Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature. In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times. |
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Post by sheepy on Mar 2, 2024 16:36:16 GMT
I never said it wouldn't change, I said never has it changed so quickly, which a few of us knew about as far back as the late 70's what would be coming, there is a dark side of that which has been very demanding keeping it in check which has now become a political battle and about the value of everything. As well as who controls what. I know what you said , and im disagreeing with you. Ive said , and many others have said , the British are in meltdown because their world is coming to an end. As all things do. Thats all that is left now , navel gazing about a period long gone , never to return , and meltdown about what to do about it. You can disagree all you like but the evidence is the evidence. Just because it doesn't fit your narrative doesn't make it so. The meltdown as you put it, is not just the UK mental health is not the best worldwide. As I often say I envy those who don't have a clue. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 16:40:22 GMT
"Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature.
In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times."
I don't think people whose formative years were in the twenties, thirties and forties would have thought that unless they were born with a silver spoon. The 50s and 60s though were very different, and many people (including me) rightly consider them a golden age to have grown up in. I feel sorry for children today, what dreary existences they must lead and how little they have to look forward to. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 16:40:52 GMT
I thought baby boomers were blamed for having it easy and pulling up the ladder. If that is true we must have lived in a golden era. Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature. In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times. Indeed it is but there are many who blame baby boomers for their own inability to succeed. So the best of times of their youth was destroyed by the boomers. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 16:51:44 GMT
"Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature.
In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times."
I don't think people whose formative years were in the twenties, thirties and forties would have thought that unless they were born with a silver spoon. The 50s and 60s though were very different, and many people (including me) rightly consider them a golden age to have grown up in. I feel sorry for children today, what dreary existences they must lead and how little they have to look forward to. I think that the mid to late 90s was the best of times but I realise that's because I was young, had my whole life ahead of me, no wife, kids or mortgage to worry about and my life revolved around partying. I also appreciate it probably wasn't how I remember it. Like I said most people seem to think the time of their youth, whenever it was, was the best of times for the same reason. Things weren't necessarily better then, they were. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 16:58:35 GMT
"Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature.
In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times."
I don't think people whose formative years were in the twenties, thirties and forties would have thought that unless they were born with a silver spoon. The 50s and 60s though were very different, and many people (including me) rightly consider them a golden age to have grown up in. I feel sorry for children today, what dreary existences they must lead and how little they have to look forward to. I think that the mid to late 90s was the best of times but I realise that's because I was young, had my whole life ahead of me, no wife, kids or mortgage to worry about and my life revolved around partying. I also appreciate it probably wasn't how I remember it. Like I said most people seem to think the time of their youth, whenever it was, was the best of times for the same reason. Things weren't necessarily better then, they were. This was the time of course when Baby boomers were coping with mortgages, redundancies and age related discrimination and also coping with fractious teenagers who believed everyone owed them a living and preferred partying to putting aside for the rainy days that they were told were sure to come, and they did. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 17:08:35 GMT
"Nostalgia is a very untrustworthy creature.
In my experience most people seem to think the time of their youth was the best of times."
I don't think people whose formative years were in the twenties, thirties and forties would have thought that unless they were born with a silver spoon. The 50s and 60s though were very different, and many people (including me) rightly consider them a golden age to have grown up in. I feel sorry for children today, what dreary existences they must lead and how little they have to look forward to. Yes. The twenties, thirties and forties were remembered as harder times in the fifties and sixties. The general impression seems to be a period of steady improvement, followed by a period (from the sixties onward) of relentless decline. I used to dismiss such notions of decline, often expressed by older people, when i was younger. It is only as i have got older and therefore been able to make comparisons first hand, that realise they had a point and the downward trajectory is indeed getting steeper. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 17:16:34 GMT
Harold Macmillan "You've never had it so good" (1959)
Harold Wilson "The pound in your pocket is not being devalued" (1967)
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 21:14:54 GMT
Zany's taking his time pondering. Perhaps it's all just a little too hard?
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Post by thomas on Mar 3, 2024 12:05:23 GMT
As a scot , the first thing im noticing is you appear to be conflating englishness , a national identity , with britishness , an imperial construct encompassing many different national identities. If you can't get the very name of the identity you are aiming for in your rose tinted glass navel gazing on some cherry picked nirvana period of history , then how can we take you serious in the first place? I dont believe you can turn back the clock , and to my mind your post is reflective of the very crises of identity , and massive post imperial decline we are witnessing in britishness today. Until England gets over its post imperial delusions , rediscovers its national identity again , and finds peace in that identity as a small European country , then pondering the ever increasing crises of pride , decline and identity in the 21st century will be the norm , while gazing blissfully back on some so called period of the Elysian Fields that in reality never existed . Andrew neil , among many other writers , thinkers and journalists , have written about this extensively , in Neils case only yesterday in his mail column. how the uk is in massive post imperial decline , unhappy , drifting aimlessly and how the political elite dont have a clue what to do about it. Some blame Brexit , others the political elite themselves and their failure on many issues , but these are mere symptoms of decline rather than the cause of that post imperial decline. You can't keep wist fully looking backwards .The empire for better or worse is gone , and it's not coming back. Same as the fifties and sixties . Feeling better now after that canter-out on your favourite hobby-horse Tommo? sorry if ive upset you dan. |
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