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Post by Bentley on Feb 29, 2024 20:39:15 GMT
I can’t be proud to stand with them by default If I don’t know exactly what their world view or culture is. That’s why I posted those words …. That's how they engineer the divides. They imply differences and exaggerate them. The only cure is to mix and talk. Sometimes its shocking, mostly its reassuring that they think just like you do. Shocking. I did a job (25 years ago) for a Bangladeshi guy who basically had a slave girl who he openly struck in front of me. I told him if he did it again I would knock his teeth out. Equally I know a lovely Indian guy who would do anything for anyone and worries about how to care for his mum just as would you and I. And I employ dozens of Muslims that you would never know were Muslims. I don’t think that you understood my post . Your reply certainly doesn’t seem to suggest you do. Is there any part that I can help you with ?
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Post by zanygame on Feb 29, 2024 20:40:58 GMT
So why is it after record levels of net migration recorded in 2022 immigration has slid down the table of concerns for the electorate? Your reliance on polling in this context is silly - another poster here will tell that when presented in isolation and without prompting, the BNP's policies are actually surprisingly popular. A poll tends to get you variable answers depending on all sorts of factors in presentation and wording. My prediction is you will continue to ignore the obvious because it suits you and my advice to responsible minority groups in the UK is to stop supporting mass immigration. I
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2024 20:41:34 GMT
Record levels of immigration are a fact as are election results for those parties with the harshest anti-immigration policies. Are you suggesting that the electorate are not influenced by the MSM? The electorate keep voting for parties promising lower immigration - that those parties ignore that vote and allow ever higher immigration does not mean that the people agree. True, which makes the topic somewhat deflective. The Left aren't happy, even though they have been trashing the country and screaming abuse toward the natives for decades. They arm themselves with BLM, Islamism and hate and still they complain.
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Post by zanygame on Feb 29, 2024 20:45:05 GMT
I'm no longer sure. I used to love the fact that in my younger days (Not slavery or empire, I'm not that old) British were known for playing fair and helping others. That's all gone now, money is our god and helping others is measured on political or economic return, not doing what's right. Further we are fast becoming like those races we once despised who blamed minority groups for the ills facing their country instead of stepping up and helping. The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Indeed, What with Saddam being such a good sort, fairly elected and treating his countrymen so well. Thank goodness we didn't repeat the mistake for Syria, that's turned out so well.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 29, 2024 20:48:32 GMT
The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Indeed, What with Saddam being such a good sort, fairly elected and treating his countrymen so well. Thank goodness we didn't repeat the mistake for Syria, that's turned out so well. I suspect that the Iraq war destabilised the Middle East in the first place .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2024 20:52:04 GMT
The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Indeed, What with Saddam being such a good sort, fairly elected and treating his countrymen so well. Thank goodness we didn't repeat the mistake for Syria, that's turned out so well. It was never our place to go around the world invading countries whose regimes we didnt like just because America wanted to. Saddam might have been a very bad man in charge of a country but he was far from being unique in that respect. And how the hell did our interventions make anything better? We just opened the door to terrorists, and ended up with even worse psychos in the form of Isis. And you ignore the reason for my deep sense of shame, Blair's cringeworthy toadying. And that toadying is the only reason we went into Iraq and fucked it up even more. If you cannot see Blair's utter toadying on the international stage as a nationally shaming moment, that's your perception blind spot, not mine.
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 29, 2024 21:09:01 GMT
I'm no longer sure I'm proud to be British.
I (we) are made to feel collective guilt over the empire and slavery. Only to be topped off by the 'white privilege' I have as a white British person. That can't be trumped.
I even feel guilty because of climate change, afterall it was the greedy and ghastly British who started the industrial revolution, Britain must pay the most in reparations and brow-beating for this industrial crime.
Fair play has gone out the window. It's all about rigging the system now and being a victim. Fuck fairness taking the piss out of the British is only fair these days.
Being proud to be British or more specifically English is seen as being a nationalist knuckledragger who is despised by the chattering classes.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 29, 2024 21:09:18 GMT
We sacked Labour. Unfortunately we didn't send Blair to the International War Crimes Tribunal.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 29, 2024 21:13:44 GMT
The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Indeed, What with Saddam being such a good sort, fairly elected and treating his countrymen so well. Thank goodness we didn't repeat the mistake for Syria, that's turned out so well. You can't just invade other countries because you don't like their government. If we could, the place to start in 2003 would have been Sudan, where genocide was taking place in Darfur. Instead of doing anything to stop the genocide in Sudan we illegally invaded Iraq. A needless war which cost over 200,000 civilian lives. Our refusal to follow international law basically showed every tyrant on the planet that international law is worthless. And look at the results. Not proud of our former government, but I am really proud of everyone who protested against it (and those who ultimately booted it out).
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 29, 2024 21:14:59 GMT
I'm no longer sure. I used to love the fact that in my younger days (Not slavery or empire, I'm not that old) British were known for playing fair and helping others. That's all gone now, money is our god and helping others is measured on political or economic return, not doing what's right. Further we are fast becoming like those races we once despised who blamed minority groups for the ills facing their country instead of stepping up and helping. The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Since when has Communism been British One of Britain's best loved and known Authors was prodley Socialist George Orwell.Was very against Communism
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 29, 2024 21:20:36 GMT
So why is it after record levels of net migration recorded in 2022 immigration has slid down the table of concerns for the electorate? Historically in almost every general election result in the last 60 years the winners and the runners up have had policies that could clearly be described as strict control of immigration, no party had a stated policy of increasing immigration. So controlled immigration within low numbers has always been a vote winner when it is stated clearly by those seeking that vote. The wishes of the electorate have been broadly ignored for 60 years and very widely ignored after 1997 by all governments. If something slides down a table as a concern that does not mean one ignores it it is still a concern. If you put shopping top of your list of must dos then if it slipped to number 4 you would not ignore it it would still be a must do, or in the case of electorate concerns still a concern. See how Reform do come the GE
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Post by Bentley on Feb 29, 2024 21:21:00 GMT
The first time I ever truly felt ashamed of my country was in the run up to the Iraq War when Blair utterly debased both us and himself with his cringeworthy toadying up to America for all the world to see, with no sense of shame whatsoever. As for now, how can any good person be anything but ashamed at a nation with homeless on our streets, public services falling apart, people having to pull their own teeth out for lack of a dentist, more working people in poverty than out of work, the scourge of malnutrition starting to stalk the land, food banks all over the place, corruption in high office on a scale not seen in living memory, most politicians blatant liars it seems as well. We see them lying on TV. They know they are lying. We know they are lying. They know we know they are lying. And the do it anyway. And we still vote for them anyway. Part of our legislative system is made up of appointees and cronies, the other part is elected by a hugely disproportional system. Most of us have lost confidence in being heard under this system and suspect with good reason that the powers that be do not give a shit what we think or want as long as they can hoodwink the small minority who make up floating voters in marginal seats, the only ones whose views they care about. Work in this country has long since ceased to be the route to prosperity, just a necessity to even survive. The youth see little positive in their future anymore, with good reason. Most will never own a home, at least not until they inherit the one their grandparents brought. Assuming said grandparents have not had to sell it to finance dementia care. And we have an electorate so stupid that they are taken in by the shite spouted by an obvious narcissist and charlatan like Johnson. How can I possibly be proud of my country or it's people today? And anyone who spends as much time reading about history as I do would know that though there were positives, there is much to be ashamed of there too, from the Amritsar massacre to the Irish Potato famine, and from the repression in Kenya to the appalling conditions in concentration camps in the Boer War. Even our British Empire was with the partial exception of the white dominions an exercise in repression, brutality and torture. And even in the white dominions, the native populations suffered terribly. Brutalities used to repress recalcitrant populations included collective punishment on entire towns, bulldozing of dwellings, mine clearance by forcing lorry loads of prisoners to drive in front, resulting in most of them being blown to bits, concentration camps, deliberate starvation, sometimes to death, of detainees, blowing people apart with cannons, burning them alive, flogging them to death, beating them to death, barbaric tortures. Most of this was known at the highest level, the only concerns being to protect the "security" forces from legal sanctions. In a book I have just read about the unvarnished history of the British Empire, one such British operative in Kenya described his arrival at the interrogation of a suspect. He described matter of factly how the suspect already had one eye hanging out of it's socket whilst both his ears had been cut off. He himself then cut the victim's balls off. In every case when the British finally left a colony they spent much time beforehand burning incriminating evidence.. Present or past, it is hard for a moral person to be proud of this country. Since when has Communism been British One of Britain's best loved and known Authors was prodley Socialist George Orwell.Was very against Communism Democratic socialist .
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Post by sandypine on Feb 29, 2024 21:44:44 GMT
I can’t be proud to stand with them by default If I don’t know exactly what their world view or culture is. That’s why I posted those words …. That's how they engineer the divides. They imply differences and exaggerate them. The only cure is to mix and talk. Sometimes its shocking, mostly its reassuring that they think just like you do. Shocking. I did a job (25 years ago) for a Bangladeshi guy who basically had a slave girl who he openly struck in front of me. I told him if he did it again I would knock his teeth out. Equally I know a lovely Indian guy who would do anything for anyone and worries about how to care for his mum just as would you and I. And I employ dozens of Muslims that you would never know were Muslims. How do you know they are Muslim? I have worked with some thousands of people over the years and very few indicated their religious preferences and when they did one tended to keep them at a distance.
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Post by wapentake on Feb 29, 2024 22:03:32 GMT
I don’t know about gone now it went a while ago when Blair wanted to play cowboys and Indians with his mate Bush and that was all dressed up as helping people,well it helped Blair’s wallet and fed his ego and brought instability to the Middle East and upsurge of IS which lasts to this day. Yes this country did have a reputation for fairness and helping others but don’t blame the ordinary people because the ills of this country are not down to them but to a succession of politicians with more of an eye on selling this country out and the economic,political and social disaster of unfettered immigration. Thats not down to the people of this country but someone and his ilk mentioned earler. There's that, it’s someone else's fault again. Well Zany old son I wasn’t P.M. but if it helps to say it’s my fault crack on I think the reality is as I set out apart from elections who consults or cares about the plebs which is reflected in the abysmal turnout. Lets face it all three main parties have had a hand in the disgrace of the post office and what do we get “I was lied to” “We were assured Horizon was robust” so tell us Zany was all that not their fault and isn’t it a reflection of the disconnect between Westminster and the plebs or are they victims of the populace?
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 29, 2024 22:28:22 GMT
If the way a country is run conforms (roughly) to the aggregate atmosphere / expectations / values of the community, then it will be at ease with itself. The problem the uk has is that it is governed by an uncountable clique who run things increasingly in total opposition to the aggregate atmosphere and values of the people. They are opening up a divide and they show no sign of relenting. Is this how it happens. The unaccountable clique run the country for their own ends.
Sorry, but I had to chuckle at this whinge from someone who supports membership of the EU..
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