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Post by sheepy on Mar 6, 2024 20:54:22 GMT
Yes, there was, stop pretending Labour didn't have one. They were trashed and we all know it. care to name them. Don't try and make out Labour had washed their hands of him, they knew they didn't stand a chance and the best thing they could do was say they didn't have a candidate. The last few days have been hilarious, with you all trying to pretend you represent the Muslim community and wouldn't have a bad word said against them. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 6, 2024 22:09:47 GMT
I’m not ashamed to be British. But I can be ashamed of some British and the way they sully the good name of the country by their actions… So am I Pat, so am I..  |
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Post by Orac on Mar 6, 2024 22:28:38 GMT
Take a look at the Muslim world and ask yourself why would a person in the UK strongly want this, what possible motive could they have? Ask yourself why a Muslim in the UK would want this. You are asking me why a Muslim in the UK would want more Muslims in the UK? It's a good question, but i feel it's one for you rather than me. If they were rational actors who had thrown their lot in with the the UK as a nation, they wouldn't |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 7, 2024 7:23:10 GMT
Ask yourself why a Muslim in the UK would want this. You are asking me why a Muslim in the UK would want more Muslims in the UK? It's a good question, but i feel it's one for you rather than me. If they were rational actors who had thrown their lot in with the the UK as a nation, they wouldn't No I'm not. I'm asking why a Muslim living in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Regardless of WHY you think they are like it, do you think Muslims who moved here miss that? |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 7, 2024 7:31:09 GMT
You are asking me why a Muslim in the UK would want more Muslims in the UK? It's a good question, but i feel it's one for you rather than me. If they were rational actors who had thrown their lot in with the the UK as a nation, they wouldn't No I'm not. I'm asking why a Muslim living in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Regardless of WHY you think they are like it, do you think Muslims who moved here miss that? The UK has a generous welfare state - Pakistan does not. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 7, 2024 7:52:49 GMT
You are asking me why a Muslim in the UK would want more Muslims in the UK? It's a good question, but i feel it's one for you rather than me. If they were rational actors who had thrown their lot in with the the UK as a nation, they wouldn't No I'm not. I'm asking why a Muslim living in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Regardless of WHY you think they are like it, do you think Muslims who moved here miss that? Nobody wants to be like Pakistan. However, Pakistan's problems are still caused by the attitudes and beliefs of Pakistanis If a Pakistani came to the uk and was completely clear thinking and logical, he would probably desist from voting or involving himself in UK politics, deferring to the attitudes of people already here to avoid nudging the UK closer to Pakistan's culture and problems with his preferences and wishes. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 7, 2024 8:23:58 GMT
No I'm not. I'm asking why a Muslim living in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Regardless of WHY you think they are like it, do you think Muslims who moved here miss that? The UK has a generous welfare state - Pakistan does not. Yes, but do you think Muslims in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 7, 2024 8:26:24 GMT
No I'm not. I'm asking why a Muslim living in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Regardless of WHY you think they are like it, do you think Muslims who moved here miss that? Nobody wants to be like Pakistan. However, Pakistan's problems are still caused by the attitudes and beliefs of Pakistanis If a Pakistani came to the uk and was completely clear thinking and logical, he would probably desist from voting or involving himself in UK politics, deferring to the attitudes of people already here to avoid nudging the UK closer to Pakistan's culture and problems with his preferences and wishes. Why? You can get involved with UK politics without wanting it to be like Pakistan. Why do you find it so hard to give my question a straight answer. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 7, 2024 8:38:34 GMT
The UK has a generous welfare state - Pakistan does not. Yes, but do you think Muslims in the UK would want it to be like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. I'm sure that all the Muslims who moved here from Pakistan would like Islamic Law and customs to be the same as they were at home - they don't move here for the weather, they move for economic benefit. There is no evidence (in fact there is evidence to contrary) that people move from Pakistan to escape Islam. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 7, 2024 8:47:19 GMT
Nobody wants to be like Pakistan. However, Pakistan's problems are still caused by the attitudes and beliefs of Pakistanis If a Pakistani came to the uk and was completely clear thinking and logical, he would probably desist from voting or involving himself in UK politics, deferring to the attitudes of people already here to avoid nudging the UK closer to Pakistan's culture and problems with his preferences and wishes. Why? You can get involved with UK politics without wanting it to be like Pakistan. You have skipped over the most important part of what I said - Nobody wants to be like Pakistan. However, Pakistan's problems are caused by the attitudes and beliefs of PakistanisHold that notion in your mind and it becomes obvious why a logical Pakistani immigrant would defer to the attitudes, beliefs and social customs of those already here. He came here to escape the Pakistan created by Pakistani attitudes - remember? Of course, this is not what happens because Pakistanis are not clear and logical, they come to the UK because they want the benefits of UK culture to be transferred to their wishes and preferences (their culture) and they are told, by people like yourself, that it is perfectly reasonable to pursue their disastrous beliefs and culture in UK territory and at the expense of UK people. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 10:17:11 GMT
Did someone, sometime wake up one morning and say to themselves: "You know, what this country really needs is four or five million Muslims. I'll raise the matter at the Cabinet meeting later today." No they said this country needs four or five million immigrants and Muslims applied. When you go to the cabinet meeting suggest we each need to pay more tax rather than bring in more people to pay more tax. Let me know how it goes down. There wouldn't really be much point since Muslim immigrants usually come from very poor countries in South Asia, the Middle East and North/Central Africa.
The tax yield from such unpromising stock will be very meager and won't even cover the costs in keeping them here.
Did you know that almost half of all ethnic minority children are living in poverty?
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Post by Vinny on Mar 7, 2024 10:24:25 GMT
Both have a specific world view and Both do not. Muslims do not all share ISIS view of the world. Absolutely correct, however they ALL believe in the Koran. skepticsannotatedbible.com/all/cr_list.htmlAnd whilst the Koran has less cruelty and violence in it than the Bible, it still has cruelty and violence and brutal intolerance that sadly a dangerous number believe in actually putting into practice. I believe in taking every individual as I find them, however the Koran is not an individual, it is the textbook for an entire culture.
And it contains teachings such as:
That kind of teaching is responsible for a lot of murders.
And why should we be tolerant of intolerance, bullying, murder? "It's their religion" is no excuse.
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Post by sandypine on Mar 7, 2024 11:10:09 GMT
This is just avoidance of the obvious - a magical explanation. The British public didn't suddenly turn bigoted. What actually happened is that they realised gradually that something that they were never very keen on was not going to remain small and not be moderated unless they shouted. The British public haven't changed much on the matter itself, they have just woken up to the realisation that it's becoming a crisis. I disagree, I think it was a very successful scapegoating campaign. I never felt unwelcome in my own country up until a few years ago. Then you have not been involved in politics for the last 60 years; accusing almost everyone of scapegoating has been the MO of those pursuing a policy not predicated on any agreement or covenant with the electorate but has been and is still being enacted largely to the detriment and disadvantage of those whose permission should have been sought. Who makes you feel unwelcome? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 7, 2024 11:58:31 GMT
I disagree, I think it was a very successful scapegoating campaign. I never felt unwelcome in my own country up until a few years ago. Then you have not been involved in politics for the last 60 years; accusing almost everyone of scapegoating has been the MO of those pursuing a policy not predicated on any agreement or covenant with the electorate but has been and is still being enacted largely to the detriment and disadvantage of those whose permission should have been sought. Who makes you feel unwelcome? "Who makes you feel unwelcome?" Well for starters look at the grief I got on here for daring to say I'm English. This from people who complain bitterly about immigrants and their descendants not integrating. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 7, 2024 12:28:50 GMT
"Who makes you feel unwelcome?" Well for starters look at the grief I got on here for daring to say I'm English. This from people who complain bitterly about immigrants and their descendants not integrating. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Don't tar all restrictionists with the same brush. Some of us don't believe in integration as a 'solution' either. That's what they've been trying in France with no more success than the UK has had with its state policy of multiculturalism.
In fact by some measures e.g. numbers of French people murdered by immigrants they're even worse off.
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