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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 13:18:52 GMT
Any other explanation would involve a broad conspiracy across HR departments to deny people with those names an interview … It wouldn't require a conspiracy as I've already explained, it would in fact negate the need for a conspiracy. Of course it would .Anyone deliberately denying people with certain names would need the tacit agreement of their colleagues. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 13:26:59 GMT
It wouldn't require a conspiracy as I've already explained, it would in fact negate the need for a conspiracy. Of course it would .Anyone deliberately denying people with certain names would need the tacit agreement of their colleagues. I've never heard of a recruitment process whereby every CV application is discussed and agreed upon by the entire HR department. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 13:30:49 GMT
Of course it would .Anyone deliberately denying people with certain names would need the tacit agreement of their colleagues. I've never heard of a recruitment process whereby every CV application is discussed and agreed upon by the entire HR department. Systematic discrimination would be discovered. You wouldn't need EVERY application. Or are you claiming that HR depts are generally systematically racist enough for it not to be even noticed ? The plot thickens… |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 13:36:17 GMT
I've never heard of a recruitment process whereby every CV application is discussed and agreed upon by the entire HR department. Systematic discrimination would be discovered. You wouldn't need EVERY application. Or are you claiming that HR depts are generally systematically racist enough for it not to be even noticed ? The plot thickens… Societal prejudice along with ambivalence and/or ignorance and/or heavy workloads would do the job I suspect. I've interviewed people having had no part in the CV selection stage of the process, I would have had no idea if a stronger candidate than the one sitting in front of me was unfairly discarded. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 13:39:49 GMT
Systematic discrimination would be discovered. You wouldn't need EVERY application. Or are you claiming that HR depts are generally systematically racist enough for it not to be even noticed ? The plot thickens… Societal prejudice along with ambivalence and/or ignorance and/or heavy workloads would do the job I suspect. I've interviewed people having had no part in the CV selection stage of the process, I would have had no idea if a stronger candidate than the one sitting in front of me was unfairly discarded. Ah the buzzword argument followed by an admission that you haven’t a clue if it goes on or not . |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 13:44:50 GMT
Societal prejudice along with ambivalence and/or ignorance and/or heavy workloads would do the job I suspect. I've interviewed people having had no part in the CV selection stage of the process, I would have had no idea if a stronger candidate than the one sitting in front of me was unfairly discarded. Ah the buzzword argument followed by an admission that you haven’t a clue if it goes on or not . I didn't know because it wasn't my job to know and was very busy with my own job, not to mention I don't think HR would have been too thrilled if I had been perceived to be telling them how to do their job. The objective data is indicative that it does go on. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 13:49:15 GMT
Ah the buzzword argument followed by an admission that you haven’t a clue if it goes on or not . I didn't know because it wasn't my job to know and was very busy with my own job, not to mention I don't think HR would have been too thrilled if I had been perceived to be telling them how to do their job. The objective data is indicative that it does go on. As I said , you haven’t a clue . Yes your data suggested that people with certain names were less likely to get an interview just as some people with certain names were less likely not get a booking in Pontins . The most rational conclusion is that the same reason applies to both . |
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Post by Orac on Mar 4, 2024 14:03:36 GMT
So you're telling me what I think now? I’m not sure that you know what you think . You dismiss the three possible readings out to you and allude to a widespread irrational hive mind in HR departments This is likely how the 'racist' results were obtained. Rather than going through the normal process of application for a large company (ie through a hr department via an agency), 'out of the blue' application letters were written to small companies. The ones with foreign sounding names were probably statistically more likely to be discarded out of hand as 'possibly a Nigerian 401 scam'. Large companies have a procedure and anyone who has had contact with that procedure knows that a 'foreign sounding' or 'black sounding' name is not remotely going to disable your application - quite the converse You can get whatever results you want if you try hard enough and use the right methods. Grievance engineering |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 14:05:52 GMT
I didn't know because it wasn't my job to know and was very busy with my own job, not to mention I don't think HR would have been too thrilled if I had been perceived to be telling them how to do their job. The objective data is indicative that it does go on. As I said , you haven’t a clue . Yes your data suggested that people with certain names were less likely to get an interview just as some people with certain names were less likely not get a booking in Pontins . The most rational conclusion is that the same reason applies to both . You've provided no data to back up the claim that ethnic minorties perform worse, if such data existed I would be absolutely stunned that certain politicians and media groups weren't shouting it from the roof tops. The logical conclusion therefore is that no such evidence exists. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 14:10:38 GMT
I’m not sure that you know what you think . You dismiss the three possible readings out to you and allude to a widespread irrational hive mind in HR departments This is likely how the 'racist' results were obtained. Rather than going through the normal process of application for a large company (ie through a hr department via an agency), 'out of the blue' application letters were written to small companies. The ones with foreign sounding names were probably statistically more likely to be discarded out of hand as 'possibly a Nigerian 401 scam'. Large companies have a procedure and anyone who has had contact with that procedure knows that a 'foreign sounding' or 'black sounding' name is not remotely going to disable your application - quite the converse You can get whatever results you want if you try hard enough and use the right methods. Grievance engineering And victim mining . |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 14:10:47 GMT
I’m not sure that you know what you think . You dismiss the three possible readings out to you and allude to a widespread irrational hive mind in HR departments This is likely how the 'racist' results were obtained. Rather than going through the normal process of application for a large company (ie through a hr department via an agency), 'out of the blue' application letters were written to small companies. The ones with foreign sounding names were probably statistically more likely to be discarded out of hand as 'possibly a Nigerian 401 scam'. Large companies have a procedure and anyone who has had contact with that procedure knows that a 'foreign sounding' or 'black sounding' name is not remotely going to disable your application - quite the converse You can get whatever results you want if you try hard enough and use the right methods. Grievance engineering "Analyzing 123 "resume studies" from various nations, I found that over 95% identified high ethnic discrimination in recruitment, with ethnic minority applicants receiving about half as many positive responses. The discrimination was found to be consistent against both immigrants and second-generation immigrants, emphasizing that the ethnic minority name itself is the hindrance." www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities#:~:text=Literature%20Review%20on%20Name%20and%20Ethnic%20Discrimination&text=Analyzing%20123%20%22resume%20studies%22%20from,half%20as%20many%20positive%20responses. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 14:17:24 GMT
As I said , you haven’t a clue . Yes your data suggested that people with certain names were less likely to get an interview just as some people with certain names were less likely not get a booking in Pontins . The most rational conclusion is that the same reason applies to both . You've provided no data to back up the claim that ethnic minorties perform worse, if such data existed I would be absolutely stunned that certain politicians and media groups weren't shouting it from the roof tops. The logical conclusion therefore is that no such evidence exists. And you have provided no evidence that there was irrational discrimination . The logical conclusion that these people were denied an interview because they were statistically a poor candidate . Just as the 65year old lap dance candidate would be . |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 4, 2024 14:19:37 GMT
This is likely how the 'racist' results were obtained. Rather than going through the normal process of application for a large company (ie through a hr department via an agency), 'out of the blue' application letters were written to small companies. The ones with foreign sounding names were probably statistically more likely to be discarded out of hand as 'possibly a Nigerian 401 scam'. Large companies have a procedure and anyone who has had contact with that procedure knows that a 'foreign sounding' or 'black sounding' name is not remotely going to disable your application - quite the converse You can get whatever results you want if you try hard enough and use the right methods. Grievance engineering "Analyzing 123 "resume studies" from various nations, I found that over 95% identified high ethnic discrimination in recruitment, with ethnic minority applicants receiving about half as many positive responses. The discrimination was found to be consistent against both immigrants and second-generation immigrants, emphasizing that the ethnic minority name itself is the hindrance." www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities#:~:text=Literature%20Review%20on%20Name%20and%20Ethnic%20Discrimination&text=Analyzing%20123%20%22resume%20studies%22%20from,half%20as%20many%20positive%20responses. Which mirrors the same problem that Pontins had. People with specific surnames were more likely to cause trouble than people with other names . First or second generation wasn’t a factor . |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 4, 2024 14:21:38 GMT
You've provided no data to back up the claim that ethnic minorties perform worse, if such data existed I would be absolutely stunned that certain politicians and media groups weren't shouting it from the roof tops. The logical conclusion therefore is that no such evidence exists. And you have provided no evidence that there was irrational discrimination . The logical conclusion that these people were denied an interview because they were statistically a poor candidate . Just as the 65year old lap dance candidate would be . How can they be a poor candidate when they have identical qualifications and experience? Like I said if there was evidence of ethnic minorties being poor candidates I'm sure we would know about it. It's therefore safe to assume there is no evidence because they are not. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 4, 2024 14:22:42 GMT
This is likely how the 'racist' results were obtained. Rather than going through the normal process of application for a large company (ie through a hr department via an agency), 'out of the blue' application letters were written to small companies. The ones with foreign sounding names were probably statistically more likely to be discarded out of hand as 'possibly a Nigerian 401 scam'. Large companies have a procedure and anyone who has had contact with that procedure knows that a 'foreign sounding' or 'black sounding' name is not remotely going to disable your application - quite the converse You can get whatever results you want if you try hard enough and use the right methods. Grievance engineering "Analyzing 123 "resume studies" from various nations, I found that over 95% identified high ethnic discrimination in recruitment, with ethnic minority applicants receiving about half as many positive responses. The discrimination was found to be consistent against both immigrants and second-generation immigrants, emphasizing that the ethnic minority name itself is the hindrance." www.kcl.ac.uk/research/the-resume-bias-how-names-and-ethnicity-influence-employment-opportunities#:~:text=Literature%20Review%20on%20Name%20and%20Ethnic%20Discrimination&text=Analyzing%20123%20%22resume%20studies%22%20from,half%20as%20many%20positive%20responses. It's no good keep waving it about. If you narrowed search down to small, family owned 'black businesses', you would likely find some 'horrific racism' against people who were obviously white. Consider anyone white applying to work at a Turkish barber, for instance. Large companies do their candidate selection via proxies precisely so they can't be sued for their personal preferences. The proxies often (as a matter of course now) play it safe by discriminating against whites. |
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