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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 7:44:15 GMT
When you meet other cultures you usually find they share a great many similarities with you unless you look for the differences. Apparently the prime minister gave an impromptu speech last night in which he lamented 'the extremists who are trying to tear us apart'.
He doesn't seem to have noticed that British society is already fragmented along a number of deep and widening fault-lines into mutually antagonistic social, cultural, ethnic and even economic groups that really don't get along with each other. Many of them are not even of domestic origin. 'Extremists' have had very little to do with it.
He himself is a prominent symbol of that ongoing and accelerating process.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 2, 2024 7:45:58 GMT
You have no territorial claim. The people who own the land, own the land. Are you trying to say that the rich who own the land should not be allowed to sell it to non English residents? that is quite common around the world. Switzerland and New Zealand are among several others that have restrictions on selling to foreign buyers - it is also being proposed by the Mayor of London and the Labour Party.. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 7:49:57 GMT
Indeed. Most of the countries that provide the source of immigrants have restrictions on foreigners buying real estate. India in particular.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 8:18:39 GMT
Do you mind! I have no links to the Haplo's we don't even go to the same pub. I had a feeling that might go whooshing by but just couldn't resist. Honestly I thought it was academic. If you would like to discuss the genetic make up of mankind then start a thread. I might be interesting if the racists don't steal it. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 8:23:02 GMT
When you meet other cultures you usually find they share a great many similarities with you unless you look for the differences. Apparently the prime minister gave an impromptu speech last night in which he lamented 'the extremists who are trying to tear us apart'.
He doesn't seem to have noticed that British society is already fragmented along a number of deep and widening fault-lines into mutually antagonistic social, cultural, ethnic and even economic groups that really don't get along with each other. Many of them are not even of domestic origin. 'Extremists' have had very little to do with it.
He himself is a prominent symbol of that ongoing and accelerating process.
I think George Galloway is right in that a large number of ordinary Brits like me are dismayed by our countries tacit support for Israels killing of 30,000 Palestinians in their supposed hunt for Hamas. And NO, I'm not a Muslim, not a funny colour. Would you support your British government if they killed 30,000 Northern Ireland citizens in their hunt for the IRA? And as he points out that voice is all but silent in our countries press. I think you hint at the fragmentation being along Muslim of immigrant lines, but I think the divisions are very different. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 8:23:24 GMT
You have no territorial claim. The people who own the land, own the land. Are you trying to say that the rich who own the land should not be allowed to sell it to non English residents? I had no idea you were an anarcho-capitalist. In common understanding countries themselves do have 'an ownership' of the territory they occupy - hence their right to prevent entry into 'their territory'. They also have institutions that have a territorial extent - ie laws, services etc. As for the rights of landowners to sell, that might be simply a matter of pragmatics- ie someone who wants to buy land to live here is going to be put off by the fact that they aren't allowed to live here. I think the principle you talk about above isn't adhered to in any case. I believe, as a landowner you can now commit a crime by refusing an offer. People were refusing competitive private offers and so they made it a crime to do so. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 8:25:04 GMT
I suspect a discussion here on the population genetics of the British Isles would a close second to one on sustainability in terms of general lack of interest so I won't be putting any effort into starting one.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 2, 2024 8:33:47 GMT
You have no territorial claim. The people who own the land, own the land. Are you trying to say that the rich who own the land should not be allowed to sell it to non English residents? Whatever that label means (You do like labelling people, does it make you feel stronger?) What I described is reality. Yes that's the story you are sold, but try asking for some of that land, or even a say in what's done with it. You mean stop immigration? Well yes I want that. the difference between you and I is that you want to blame the immigrants, I want to blame the rich who invited them in. . Sorry? What law is that? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 8:44:20 GMT
I think George Galloway is right in that a large number of ordinary Brits like me are dismayed by our countries tacit support for Israels killing of 30,000 Palestinians in their supposed hunt for Hamas. And NO, I'm not a Muslim, not a funny colour. Would you support your British government if they killed 30,000 Northern Ireland citizens in their hunt for the IRA? And as he points out that voice is all but silent in our countries press. I think you hint at the fragmentation being along Muslim of immigrant lines, but I think the divisions are very different. Apart from the obviously perceived need for the UK to hew closely to US foreign policy I see little benefit in taking sides in the Izzy-Pally imbroglio. It's a conflict in which the UK ought to be studiously neutral.
As for the centrifugal forces that are leading to fragmentation and balkanisation, ethnic and religious divisions are an important cause but not the only ones. They just add to and exacerbate the ones that already exist.
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Post by Orac on Mar 2, 2024 8:54:27 GMT
Zany,
You can't exclude others from land within a country without going through a legal process that administrates such rights. However, that legal system itself exists within the ownership of a state / country. It might clarify to think of the full tenure as being split into parts with the 'private owner (title owner)' having a slice which is defined legally by the country who (in legal terms it defines) has another slice. Your notion that the whole lot (full rights of exclusion) is owned by the title owner is shown false by the observation that the UK police (or agents of the state) can gain legal access to any property regardless of the consent of the owner.
It's my understanding that a landowner in the UK can be charged with a discrimination crime for refusing a higher offer if such a refusal can be argued to be on the grounds of race / national origins etc. I don't blame the immigrants, I blame the people who sold the UK population down the river and left them with a severely diluted inheritance that many fought and died to preserve for their children.
I say anarcho-capitalist, because you are describing the anarcho-capitalist conception of full, unalloyed (stateless) land title. I don't think this exists anywhere presently - in fact, i don't think it can exist legally anywhere because if it were defined legally it wouldn't be stateless
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 2, 2024 9:15:14 GMT
Click on the BBC iPlayer today and this is the first image that fills the screen. Something to be proud of? Zany?
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 9:23:43 GMT
I'm of immigrant extraction (Irish), my kids are of immigrant extraction (Irish and Indian) and we're English. You can stamp your feet and throw your toys around as much as you like but it won't change anything, question is, what good comes from denying people their national identity? You can call yourself anything you want. That doesn't make it so, nor does it influence how others see you. For example, a man in a dress who calls himself Wendy is still a bloke. I don't call myself English, I am English. What positive outcome are you trying to achieve by telling me otherwise? |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 9:25:45 GMT
Why does it matter where someone's parents were born? Did you choose your parents? I wasn't asking you so wind yer neck in. Free speech out of fashion today is it? Hey ho, I wonder which way the wind will be blowing tomorrow. |
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Post by happyhornet on Mar 2, 2024 9:29:35 GMT
"But I'm not happy because the England of my youth is a very different country to England today." There have I believe been discovered evidence of Plato complaining about the youth of today in the 4th century BC. Everyone when they reach a certain age lives in a country that's different to the one of their youth. When I was born there were less than 50,000 Muslims in this non-islamic country. Today there are 4 million, that's the official figure, who knows what the actual figure might be. And as their numbers grow the more aggressive and demanding they become. Muslims do not integrate, islam is a throwback to the dark ages and is incompatible with anything other than islam. So the issue is the existence of people who hold views and beliefs you disagree with? I suspect you may have more in common with muslim extremists than you realise. And it's true, some muslims don't integrate, but plenty do, if you don't recognise the latter as British/English then you've got no business complaining about lack of integration, you're part of the problem. |
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Post by sandypine on Mar 2, 2024 9:31:14 GMT
You can call yourself anything you want. That doesn't make it so, nor does it influence how others see you. For example, a man in a dress who calls himself Wendy is still a bloke. I don't call myself English, I am English. What positive outcome are you trying to achieve by telling me otherwise? For three hundred years the British were in India, some were the result of ten generations of people being born in that country. To the Indians they were never Indian they were always the British. If a British man had said I am Indian the big question is would he have been accepted as such by the overwhelming majority of Indians? |
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