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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 13:27:19 GMT
No, NATO is not going to take Russia head on.
But NATO should be aiding Ukraine to the full.
Macron until now has dragged his heels.
It's clear there can be no negotiations, no peace until the invaders are gone from Ukraine.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 13:43:40 GMT
No, NATO is not going to take Russia head on. But NATO should be aiding Ukraine to the full. Macron until now has dragged his heels. It's clear there can be no negotiations, no peace until the invaders are gone from Ukraine. See the emerging pattern? |
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Post by Totheleft on Mar 3, 2024 0:10:50 GMT
It's time the UK stopped providing Billions of pounds to Ukraine. For a war they don't seem like there going to win
UK assistance
The UK is one of the leading donors to Ukraine, alongside the US and Germany. The UK has pledged almost £12 billion in overall support to Ukraine since February 2022, of which £7.1 billion is for military assistance. £2.3 billion was provided in the financial years 2022/23 and 2023/24 and on 12 January 2024, the Government announced a further £2.5 billion of funding for 2024/25.
In a time British citizen are facing hardship and a recession we can I'll afford to them anymore more money.
Plus Humantraion aid to Ukrainians
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 3, 2024 11:33:50 GMT
Spoken like Haw Haw in WW2. Well i suppose if we has followed Haw Haw (and half the cabinet, at least) of Churchill’s time, Russia would not be a problem today as Hitler and his rather well equipped (at the start) men would have piledriven them flat without the distraction of the western Front, and by the time the US realised it would have been too late. I doubt Hamas would exist too, but the Palestinians sure as hell wouldn’t have the problems they’ve had since about 1948 There may not have been a Ukraine either… or many other non german speaking countries … but you cant have everything. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 3, 2024 14:20:38 GMT
Leftie, our aid to Ukraine has repelled an assault on Kyiv and prevented the downfall of a democracy to a dictatorship.
We are at this point helping the Ukrainians resist genocide in a war of attrition that Russia cannot win, unless the aid stops.
If the aid stops, more than a hundred thousand Ukrainian civilians would be butchered. That's already happened in Chechnya, in Bucha and Izyum hundreds were bound and shot dead.
In Donetsk and Luhansk children have been abducted by the occupying Russian mercenaries and Russian military.
Locals have also been murdered by the invaders.
Your argument is cowardice.
If their lives are less important than our economy, then I'm a panda. Fuck the economy, save their lives.
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 3, 2024 16:09:26 GMT
Good points . IMO if the US drops the support for Ukraine significantly then a ceasefire will follow and Russia will keep what it caught . More than that, Russia will re-arm and then invade the rest. And then Russia will invade another neighbour. Dropping support for Ukraine would kill hundreds of thousands more innocents. You don't get it, Putin wants to build an Empire. Well, actually, i think he wants the bits back that they enjoyed under Lenin, but lost sometime after that. If I were Polish and this arse over tit idea of letting Putin keep what he has invaded gained traction, i’d be looking to become French. Or better still, American. |
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 3, 2024 16:33:38 GMT
Even Macron is recognising now that appeasement is not the answer, only arming Ukraine whilst strengthening NATO will prevent further wars from Russia. Your suggestion would result in more wars. yeah..it's sad but the appeasement narrative plays well...it's an easily digested soundbite...but that's all it is, just a soundbite generated for the dull and ignorant....who knows....maybe it makes themselves feel better??
"Your suggestion would result in more wars." - I would agree with that.
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Post by thescotsman on Mar 3, 2024 16:35:33 GMT
More than that, Russia will re-arm and then invade the rest. And then Russia will invade another neighbour. Dropping support for Ukraine would kill hundreds of thousands more innocents. You don't get it, Putin wants to build an Empire. but lost sometime after that. If I were Polish and this arse over tit idea of letting Putin keep what he has invaded gained traction, i’d be looking to become French. Or better still, American. ....he wants the "bits" back that the Russian Empire had...Putin see's himself as the new ruler of the new Russian Empire....listen to his speeches and read his essay.... |
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Post by Totheleft on Mar 3, 2024 17:33:21 GMT
Leftie, our aid to Ukraine has repelled an assault on Kyiv and prevented the downfall of a democracy to a dictatorship. We are at this point helping the Ukrainians resist genocide in a war of attrition that Russia cannot win, unless the aid stops. If the aid stops, more than a hundred thousand Ukrainian civilians would be butchered. That's already happened in Chechnya, in Bucha and Izyum hundreds were bound and shot dead. In Donetsk and Luhansk children have been abducted by the occupying Russian mercenaries and Russian military. Locals have also been murdered by the invaders. Your argument is cowardice. If their lives are less important than our economy, then I'm a panda. Fuck the economy, save their lives. Vinny this was my first paragraph. It's time the UK stopped providing Billions of pounds to Ukraine. For a war they don't seem like there going to win. Has long has there been the Ukraine conflict you been saying Russia going to get defeated Ukraine plus Russian troops Back then Russian advance again. Don't forget that the Ukraine army are professional solders with much better equipment .against conscription troop With poor out date weapons |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 3, 2024 18:26:56 GMT
Wrong. We should buy them 400 leopard tanks from the Germans and lend lease them. We should buy 50 more HIMARS systems from the yanks and 200,000 rockets. We should give the Ukrainians enough weapons to repel the invaders. Your answer would cause over 100,000 deaths. It's already happened before. Look up mass graves Chechnya. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_graves_in_ChechnyaPutin's forces carried out genocide there, there's at least 50 mass graves, the Wikipedia link has a photograph of one. What do you expect from a regime which bombed its own people to get power? The Volgodonsk bombing was discussed by the Duma three days before it happened after the FSB cocked up and briefed the Duma about the wrong bombing. And then at Ryazan an FSB team were caught by the Police having planted a bomb which tested positive for RDX (Hexogen). The bombers were released on orders from the top. Alexander Litvinenko, who leaked the information about the bombings was poisoned by the FSB in 2006. |
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Post by Totheleft on Mar 3, 2024 20:28:48 GMT
Wrong. We should buy them 400 leopard tanks from the Germans and lend lease them. We should buy 50 more HIMARS systems from the yanks and 200,000 rockets. We should give the Ukrainians enough weapons to repel the invaders. Your answer would cause over 100,000 deaths. It's already happened before. Look up mass graves Chechnya. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_graves_in_ChechnyaPutin's forces carried out genocide there, there's at least 50 mass graves, the Wikipedia link has a photograph of one. What do you expect from a regime which bombed its own people to get power? The Volgodonsk bombing was discussed by the Duma three days before it happened after the FSB cocked up and briefed the Duma about the wrong bombing. And then at Ryazan an FSB team were caught by the Police having planted a bomb which tested positive for RDX (Hexogen). The bombers were released on orders from the top. Alexander Litvinenko, who leaked the information about the bombings was poisoned by the FSB in 2006. So you admit that Ukraine are losing because you want the UK to provide more weapons. On top off what the USA and Germany I's providing there a pretty crappy professional military force. You Sound like the Ukraine president with His begging bowl. No matter what equipment NATO gives them it's no advantage to them. |
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Post by Totheleft on Mar 3, 2024 20:36:50 GMT
According to DOD, NATO and EU members and other allies had committed $35 billion in security assistance to Ukraine through November 2023. Prior to and immediately following Russia's renewed invasion of Ukraine, Congress authorized or proposed increased funding levels for existing security assistance authorities.15 Feb 2024 crsreports.congress.gov › ...PDF U.S. Security Assistanc4th a to Ukraine - CRS Reports . |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 3, 2024 21:15:53 GMT
No, it's a stalemate at the moment.
But if you achieve your wish, then genocide will occur as it did in Chechnya. And then more countries will be invaded as Putin rebuilds the former Russian empire.
It was right to stand against Hitler, it's right to stand against Putin. Empires belong in the past, not the present. Democracies belong in the present and democracies do not invade democracies.
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Post by Totheleft on Mar 4, 2024 1:48:37 GMT
No, it's a stalemate at the moment. But if you achieve your wish, then genocide will occur as it did in Chechnya. And then more countries will be invaded as Putin rebuilds the former Russian empire. It was right to stand against Hitler, it's right to stand against Putin. Empires belong in the past, not the present. Democracies belong in the present and democracies do not invade democracies. His that the Hitler you call a Socialist? Do you feel theven same about putin? And talk about mass Graves and oppressiveve rulers. And standing against them isn't that what Blair did with the yanks I'n Iraq But you call him a war Criminal. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 4, 2024 7:37:55 GMT
Hitler was the leader of the National Sozialist Deutsche Arbiter Partei, NSDAP.
We declared war against Germany after years of trying to tame the NSDAP government with appeasement.
But despite our best efforts, Germany invaded Poland. We gave the ultimatum that unless Germany withdrew from Poland at once that a state of war would exist between us.
No such undertaking took place and so by Hitler's choice we were at war with Germany.
Putin is a modern Hitler. He has murdered the opposition, dismantled democracy in Russia, invaded neighbours and his forces have carried out the mass killings of captive locals.
I could show you the photos of the dead. You'd have nightmares.
If your idea of appeasement were suddenly the policy of our government, you'd turn a stalemate into a defeat and survival into genocide. Message me and I will show you photos of the massacres in Chechnya and in Ukraine if you want me to. It is as serious as what happened in WW2 when men were forced to dig their own graves and then shot dead into them.
What your hero Blair did 20 years ago was bad enough, but what Putin is doing is genocidal.
If Blair had been as bad as Putin William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith would have been murdered. Democracy would have been destroyed. All political dissent met with arrest, torture and prison or even death, the way Boris Nemtsov was gunned down in the street near the Kremlin and Anna Politkovskaya was shot dead (on Putin's birthday) when she was going home.
Blair also never bombed his own people. Putin did.
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