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Post by Hutchyns on Feb 28, 2024 9:33:26 GMT
It does make you reflect on just what sort of 'democracy' the USA can claim to be, if an individual who holds no elected office is directing their foreign policy, while their President looks on helplessly and impotent. Not that we're very much better with a sabre rattling Foreign Secretary voted into his influential position by precisely no one. I doubt the Russians will take too much notice of any lectures on democracy when issued by any of its current three biggest enemies. Yes but is he ?And does the present situation suit Biden too? There are rumblings in the US ( afaik) about the US giving so much money and resources to settle a ‘European problem ‘when the US could use it back home . 1. My personal view is that 'no' he isn't. My intention being to extend See2's point in order to highlight the implications of US foreign policy directives being formulated outside of Government by an unelected person (on the stated assumption that is actually what was/is happening) 2. Goodness knows what, if anything, the Biden regime has in mind. Their overriding priority seems to be keeping the southern border as open as possible, and they won't compromise on that even at the expense of losing out on military funding for Ukraine. A final push to get as many 'new citizens' into the country before an anticipated electoral defeat to Trump ? Along with something big planned for Ukraine and the Middle East in order to set as many regions of the world on fire in order to ensure Trump inherits maximum chaos on as many fronts as possible. Or alternatively are they quite relaxed, not giving a damn about opinion polls, confident that there are 'reasons' why Trump won't be the next President, and at worst it would be Genocide Joe v Nikki Haley, and what matters if the Dems lose, the Neocon policies (particularly foreign policy) would be safe in her hands ...... plus no nasty examinations into the possible shenanigans that enabled Joe to be declared the winner in 2020. Dropping Ukraine like a hot potato, if it's decided that it's served its usefulness, will be no problem ..... and if Germany, France, and the UK want to pick it up and expensively run with it .... well let 'em ....... Washington will cheer them on, while keeping their own dollars in their own pocket. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 9:41:16 GMT
Yes but is he ?And does the present situation suit Biden too? There are rumblings in the US ( afaik) about the US giving so much money and resources to settle a ‘European problem ‘when the US could use it back home . 1. My personal view is that 'no' he isn't. My intention being to extend See2's point in order to highlight the implications of US foreign policy directives being formulated outside of Government by an unelected person (on the stated assumption that is actually what was/is happening) 2. Goodness knows what, if anything, the Biden regime has in mind. Their overriding priority seems to be keeping the southern border as open as possible, and they won't compromise on that even at the expense of losing out on military funding for Ukraine. A final push to get as many 'new citizens' into the country before an anticipated electoral defeat to Trump ? Along with something big planned for Ukraine and the Middle East in order to set as many regions of the world on fire in order to ensure Trump inherits maximum chaos on as many fronts as possible. Or alternatively are they quite relaxed, not giving a damn about opinion polls, confident that there are 'reasons' why Trump won't be the next President, and at worst it would be Genocide Joe v Nikki Haley, and what matters if the Dems lose, the Neocon policies (particularly foreign policy) would be safe in her hands ...... plus no nasty examinations into the possible shenanigans that enabled Joe to be declared the winner in 2020. Dropping Ukraine like a hot potato, if it's decided that it's served its usefulness, will be no problem ..... and if Germany, France, and the UK want to pick it up and expensively run with it .... well let 'em ....... Washington will cheer them on, while keeping their own dollars in their own pocket. Good points . IMO if the US drops the support for Ukraine significantly then a ceasefire will follow and Russia will keep what it caught . |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 10:03:08 GMT
1. My personal view is that 'no' he isn't. My intention being to extend See2's point in order to highlight the implications of US foreign policy directives being formulated outside of Government by an unelected person (on the stated assumption that is actually what was/is happening) 2. Goodness knows what, if anything, the Biden regime has in mind. Their overriding priority seems to be keeping the southern border as open as possible, and they won't compromise on that even at the expense of losing out on military funding for Ukraine. A final push to get as many 'new citizens' into the country before an anticipated electoral defeat to Trump ? Along with something big planned for Ukraine and the Middle East in order to set as many regions of the world on fire in order to ensure Trump inherits maximum chaos on as many fronts as possible. Or alternatively are they quite relaxed, not giving a damn about opinion polls, confident that there are 'reasons' why Trump won't be the next President, and at worst it would be Genocide Joe v Nikki Haley, and what matters if the Dems lose, the Neocon policies (particularly foreign policy) would be safe in her hands ...... plus no nasty examinations into the possible shenanigans that enabled Joe to be declared the winner in 2020. Dropping Ukraine like a hot potato, if it's decided that it's served its usefulness, will be no problem ..... and if Germany, France, and the UK want to pick it up and expensively run with it .... well let 'em ....... Washington will cheer them on, while keeping their own dollars in their own pocket. Good points . IMO if the US drops the support for Ukraine significantly then a ceasefire will follow and Russia will keep what it caught . More than that, Russia will re-arm and then invade the rest. And then Russia will invade another neighbour. Dropping support for Ukraine would kill hundreds of thousands more innocents. You don't get it, Putin wants to build an Empire. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 10:07:59 GMT
Good points . IMO if the US drops the support for Ukraine significantly then a ceasefire will follow and Russia will keep what it caught . More than that, Russia will re-arm and then invade the rest. And then Russia will invade another neighbour. Dropping support for Ukraine would kill hundreds of thousands more innocents. You don't get it, Putin wants to build an Empire. Well then we need to invade Russia ..good luck with that . |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 10:09:26 GMT
No, we just need to help Ukraine repel an invasion.
After that the Russians will get rid of Putin.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 10:12:25 GMT
No, we just need to help Ukraine repel an invasion. After that the Russians will get rid of Putin. Yup. If Russia is pushed out of Ukraine , it still has the capacity to lob missiles into Ukraine to cripple Ukraines infrastructure. The war wouldn’t end , it would change . |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 10:23:28 GMT
But with Putin's regime deposed and dead, Russia wouldn't.
Defeat for Putin in Ukraine means his downfall in Russia and an end to Imperialism.
He's vulnerable, that's why he keeps murdering people to try and instill fear.
But he's the one who is most fearful of all.
Why do you think he keeps making threats? Because he's VULNERABLE.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 10:27:23 GMT
But with Putin's regime deposed and dead, Russia wouldn't. Defeat for Putin in Ukraine means his downfall in Russia and an end to Imperialism. He's vulnerable, that's why he keeps murdering people to try and instill fear. But he's the one who is most fearful of all. Why do you think he keeps making threats? Because he's VULNERABLE. I’ve been hearing about Putins imminent demise for two years . It’s wishful thinking . In fact Putin might we’ll be replaced by an even more extreme leader if he disappears. Murdering people to instill fear doesn’t indicate a leader is vulnerable. History alone tells you that. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 10:28:22 GMT
It's a response to vulnerability.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 10:31:35 GMT
It's a response to vulnerability. Yup Lenin, Stalin, Mao and all despots in history.They all murdered people because they were vulnerable and were about to be deposed ? Really ? |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 10:46:33 GMT
Tsar Nicholas II.
Nicolae Ceaucescu.
Muammar Gaddafi.
Charles Taylor.
Viktor Yanukovych.
All of them murdered people because they were vulnerable, all were deposed.
And who can forget the most famous assassination in history? Julius Caesar.
Et tu Brute? He was toppled.
The people who killed for Putin would kill him if it saves their skins.
Defeating Putin in Ukraine will leave him vulnerable to an uprising.
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Post by wapentake on Feb 28, 2024 11:19:52 GMT
It's imperialism. Putin wants to take over ALL of Ukraine. Unless he is defeated, he'll dig in, re-arm and the killing will resume, except Russia would have an equivalent to the HIMARS, new tactics and would be far more deadly. If we let Ukraine lose, Poland, Lithuania and other former Soviet occupied states will be invaded again. Putin has a Napoleon complex, he has to be stopped. I don't agree. Putin was given certain assurances about the spread of NATO and they weren't kept - at least that's what he says. And now Finland has joined and Sweden - and Ukraine wants to join. It's not surprising that Putin is pissed off. How would the USA like it if Putin put a military base in Mexico or somewhere equally adjacent? This was a catastrophic failure of diplomacy on the part of the EU and USA. Putin gave assurances on a Ukraine,Sweden and Finland joined NATO because of Putins threats. People say Russia and Gorbachev were given assurances about NATO which were also apparently untrue. link |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 12:13:52 GMT
Tsar Nicholas II. Nicolae Ceaucescu. Muammar Gaddafi. Charles Taylor. Viktor Yanukovych. All of them murdered people because they were vulnerable, all were deposed. And who can forget the most famous assassination in history? Julius Caesar. Et tu Brute? He was toppled. The people who killed for Putin would kill him if it saves their skins. Defeating Putin in Ukraine will leave him vulnerable to an uprising. Genghis Khan, Constantine , Henry VII , Franco, Pinochet, we could do this all day . And Julius Caesar wasnt assassinated because he murdered people . Octavian murdered plenty of people and he had a long reign . Your claim just doesn’t stand up. The West isn’t going to be directly involved in the Ukraine war and they are not going to give Ukraine enough resources to do it themselves . |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 28, 2024 12:17:35 GMT
Even Macron is recognising now that appeasement is not the answer, only arming Ukraine whilst strengthening NATO will prevent further wars from Russia.
Your suggestion would result in more wars.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 28, 2024 12:20:25 GMT
Even Macron is recognising now that appeasement is not the answer, only arming Ukraine whilst strengthening NATO will prevent further wars from Russia. Your suggestion would result in more wars. Macron should have and should be giving Ukraine more resources . He must realise that NATO is not going to take ion Russia head on . So he is just posturing . I wasn’t suggesting anything. Just pointing out reality . |
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