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Post by Vinny on Feb 26, 2024 18:19:10 GMT
Russia is mismanaged by an Imperialist dictatorship.
Without a strong military to counter the Russian threat war in Europe is a high risk.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 18:32:09 GMT
By the same token, you could equally say that the UK and other NATO countries are doing the same thing. Winning the war is not just a matter of the sort of resources the US has given Ukraine. To end the war soon would likely need contributions in the form of nukes or at the very least boots on the ground, and no country is willing to do that because that would spark a wider conflict. I think that the US has already been exceedingly generous to Ukraine and I'm not even sure that they could have given Ukraine more resources than they already have without depleting the supplies they need for their own protection. But why do you think it's America's responsibility to solve this problem? America isn't at risk. Europe is. If Europe becomes a formidable military force, they will not have to rely on American generosity, which in my opinion is a good thing, because American generosity always depends on who is in power and what the Opposition wants, and as we are seeing of late, aid to Ukraine can be delayed for long periods because of political squabbling. Resources or not, I don't see Europe becoming friends with Russia any time soon, do you? Russia is failing a lot faster than the US. I could say it and it might be the case but as the US is overwhelming more powerful than Europe and therefore the war against Russia is driven by the US. Ukraine thinks the war could end sooner if the US gave it more and more sophisticated weaponry. They have never requested nukes and no one has ever said that nukes could end the war . The US is not generous . They use resources strategically to look after their own interests . As all countries do. The vast difference in military power has suited the US . Europe has always had the capability to become a militarily power to rival the US but the US has never encouraged it . Of course they wouldn’t. If Trump pulls the plug in NATO then Europe and Russia could become close within a generation . Why wouldn’t they? You will find out just how generous the US has been if they withdraw from NATO altogether. It seems to me the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They're blamed for acting like the world's policeman and blamed when they don't. If they don't give enough, they're blamed for allowing bad things to happen. If they do give enough, they're blamed for benefitting from the situation. Surely you are not saying that Europe could have become a military power power to rival the US if only the US had encouraged it? The world would be a better place without international conflict. Isn't that everyone's ultimate goal?
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 18:38:52 GMT
I could say it and it might be the case but as the US is overwhelming more powerful than Europe and therefore the war against Russia is driven by the US. Ukraine thinks the war could end sooner if the US gave it more and more sophisticated weaponry. They have never requested nukes and no one has ever said that nukes could end the war . The US is not generous . They use resources strategically to look after their own interests . As all countries do. The vast difference in military power has suited the US . Europe has always had the capability to become a militarily power to rival the US but the US has never encouraged it . Of course they wouldn’t. If Trump pulls the plug in NATO then Europe and Russia could become close within a generation . Why wouldn’t they? You will find out just how generous the US has been if they withdraw from NATO altogether. It seems to me the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They're blamed for acting like the world's policeman and blamed when they don't. If they don't give enough, they're blamed for allowing bad things to happen. If they do give enough, they're blamed for benefitting from the situation. Surely you are not saying that Europe could have become a military power power to rival the US if only the US had encouraged it? The world would be a better place without international conflict. Isn't that everyone's ultimate goal? The US has put themselves into the position of the worlds policeman/ Western hegemony and have done very well out of it…just as the West has done very well out of it . Yes , it suited the US that Europe was a loyal lieutenant rather than a rival, just as it suited Europe .
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 19:09:22 GMT
You will find out just how generous the US has been if they withdraw from NATO altogether. It seems to me the US is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They're blamed for acting like the world's policeman and blamed when they don't. If they don't give enough, they're blamed for allowing bad things to happen. If they do give enough, they're blamed for benefitting from the situation. Surely you are not saying that Europe could have become a military power power to rival the US if only the US had encouraged it? The world would be a better place without international conflict. Isn't that everyone's ultimate goal? The US has put themselves into the position of the worlds policeman/ Western hegemony and have done very well out of it…just as the West has done very well out of it . Yes , it suited the US that Europe was a loyal lieutenant rather than a rival, just as it suited Europe . They are not only political allies but also trade partners. In a perfect world we would all get along, but sometimes aggression requires a response and the US has been able and willing to assist.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 19:12:51 GMT
The US has put themselves into the position of the worlds policeman/ Western hegemony and have done very well out of it…just as the West has done very well out of it . Yes , it suited the US that Europe was a loyal lieutenant rather than a rival, just as it suited Europe . They are not only political allies but also trade partners. In a perfect world we would all get along, but sometimes aggression requires a response and the US has been able and willing to assist. Yes they are trade partners and the US has been willing and able to assist its trading partners when its suits the US.
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 19:14:36 GMT
They are not only political allies but also trade partners. In a perfect world we would all get along, but sometimes aggression requires a response and the US has been able and willing to assist. Yes they are trade partners and the US has been willing and able to assist its trading partners when its suits the US. What nation gives the interests of another nation priority over its own?
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 19:19:43 GMT
Yes they are trade partners and the US has been willing and able to assist its trading partners when its suits the US. What nation gives the interests of another nation priority over its own? None including the US ,
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 19:28:59 GMT
What nation gives the interests of another nation priority over its own? None including the US , Then why should it surprise you that the US acts in the interests of the US?
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 19:34:09 GMT
Then why should it surprise you that the US acts in the interests of the US? It doesn’t surprise me . In fact it reassures me . What surprises me is Americans( and others ) who think it doesn’t . They worry me .
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 20:07:42 GMT
Then why should it surprise you that the US acts in the interests of the US? It doesn’t surprise me . In fact it reassures me . What surprises me is Americans( and others ) who think it doesn’t . They worry me . It reassures you? Why is that? And who thinks America doesn't act in its own interests? I am not saying that America isn't philanthropic or that it acts in its own interests to the exclusion of all else. When nations have interests in common, they all benefit from alliances.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 20:13:27 GMT
It doesn’t surprise me . In fact it reassures me . What surprises me is Americans( and others ) who think it doesn’t . They worry me . It reassures you? Why is that? And who thinks America doesn't act in its own interests? I am not saying that America isn't philanthropic or that it acts in its own interests to the exclusion of all else. When nations have interests in common, they all benefit from alliances. Because once you reject the ‘ special relationship’ and the Reagan like bollocks about the US and realise the US ( as a state) is an amoral predator amongst predators ( It’s just better than the rest ) then you know what you are dealing with . That's not to say Americans are amoral predators . I admire greatly American people .
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 20:20:07 GMT
It reassures you? Why is that? And who thinks America doesn't act in its own interests? I am not saying that America isn't philanthropic or that it acts in its own interests to the exclusion of all else. When nations have interests in common, they all benefit from alliances. Because once you reject the ‘ special relationship’ and the Reagan like bollocks about the US and realise the US ( as a state) is an amoral predator amongst predators ( It’s just better than the rest ) then you know what you are dealing with . That's not to say Americans are amoral predators . I admire greatly American people . Reagan liked to wax sentimental, but I don't think that the 'special relationship' is at all diminished because it exists out of mutual interest. Both sides benefit from extending special consideration to one another that they don't necessarily extend to everyone else. The Americans I know don't see themselves as amoral predators. They see themselves as well-meaning, generous and philanthropic.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 20:25:18 GMT
Because once you reject the ‘ special relationship’ and the Reagan like bollocks about the US and realise the US ( as a state) is an amoral predator amongst predators ( It’s just better than the rest ) then you know what you are dealing with . That's not to say Americans are amoral predators . I admire greatly American people . Reagan liked to wax sentimental, but I don't think that the 'special relationship' is at all diminished because it exists out of mutual interest. Both sides benefit from extending special consideration to one another that they don't necessarily extend to everyone else. The Americans I know don't see themselves as amoral predators. They see themselves as well-meaning, generous and philanthropic. There is no special relationship . The special relationship was only kindled when the UK was doing what the US wanted. I made the point of saying that I believe Americans are NOT amoral predators and that I admire them . Please let me know if you don’t want to actually read my posts before replying and I’ll stop posting quotes .
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Post by Ripley on Feb 26, 2024 20:35:35 GMT
Reagan liked to wax sentimental, but I don't think that the 'special relationship' is at all diminished because it exists out of mutual interest. Both sides benefit from extending special consideration to one another that they don't necessarily extend to everyone else. The Americans I know don't see themselves as amoral predators. They see themselves as well-meaning, generous and philanthropic. There is no special relationship . The special relationship was only kindled when the UK was doing what the US wanted. I made the point of saying that I believe Americans are NOT amoral predators and that I admire them . Please let me know if you don’t want to actually read my posts before replying and I’ll stop posting quotes . I get that there is a degree of imagined dependency between the UK and the US and that this is a sore point. No-one likes to feel that they are seen as America's poodle. However, I have not yet met an American who views the UK as dependent or inferior in any way, not one. I do read your posts. I did see your last line and I wasn't challenging it. I was only adding how Americans see themselves. If I wasn't reading your posts, I wouldn't be answering them.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 26, 2024 20:41:30 GMT
There is no special relationship . The special relationship was only kindled when the UK was doing what the US wanted. I made the point of saying that I believe Americans are NOT amoral predators and that I admire them . Please let me know if you don’t want to actually read my posts before replying and I’ll stop posting quotes . I get that there is a degree of imagined dependency between the UK and the US and that this is a sore point. No-one likes to feel that they are seen as America's poodle. However, I have not yet met an American who views the UK as dependent or inferior in any way, not one. I do read your posts. I did see your last line and I wasn't challenging it. I was only adding how Americans see themselves. If I wasn't reading your posts, I wouldn't be answering them. I suspect that many if not most Americans give the UK a second thought . The UK has been pulled between Europe and the US since WW2 but imo the US has never been consistent with the UK. When we are doing its bidding we can all pretend there is a special relationship but it’s all rhetoric and it shows when we are not . I apologise for my rudeness .
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