|
|
Post by jonksy on Feb 17, 2024 11:51:52 GMT
The labour thing that won in Wellinborough backed a nuclear weapons ban.......More than a dozen members of Labour's front bench call for Britain to scrap its nuclear deterrent despite the threat of Putin unleashing his own arsenal.......
Starmer set to attend major Munich security conference.....
Starmer is expected to be at a major security conference in Germany on Saturday for talks and meetings with world leaders.
The Labour leader will arrive at the Munich Security Conference fresh from two by-election victories, with Sir Keir expected to use the major annual event to stress his party’s commitment to Nato and defence.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Feb 17, 2024 11:57:50 GMT
The labour thing that won in Wellinborough backed a nuclear weapons ban.......More than a dozen members of Labour's front bench call for Britain to scrap its nuclear deterrent despite the threat of Putin unleashing his own arsenal.......
Starmer set to attend major Munich security conference.....
Starmer is expected to be at a major security conference in Germany on Saturday for talks and meetings with world leaders.
The Labour leader will arrive at the Munich Security Conference fresh from two by-election victories, with Sir Keir expected to use the major annual event to stress his party’s commitment to Nato and defence.
FFS the idiot is counting his chickens before they've hatched, he's already acting like the Prime Minister. |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 12:20:11 GMT
Its Desperation Time folks
Time to wheel out what a particular politician once said, once did, a view they once held, or maybe even a club, society or group they once belonged to, in a desperate attempt to tarnish that politician.
Enoch Powell once supported Britain leaving NATO, and allying ourselves with the Soviet Union.
Sir Winston Churchill was a bit Left Wing in his younger days and was a member of the Liberal Party and spent 20 years criticising the Conservatives.
The vast majority of Labour MPs back the OFFICIAL Labour Party policy, which is to not only retain our Nuclear Deterrant, but to replace it. The leader of the Labour Party has always been in favour of retention of Britains nuclear capability.
|
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Feb 17, 2024 12:32:39 GMT
The labour thing that won in Wellinborough backed a nuclear weapons ban.......More than a dozen members of Labour's front bench call for Britain to scrap its nuclear deterrent despite the threat of Putin unleashing his own arsenal.......
Starmer set to attend major Munich security conference.....
Starmer is expected to be at a major security conference in Germany on Saturday for talks and meetings with world leaders.
The Labour leader will arrive at the Munich Security Conference fresh from two by-election victories, with Sir Keir expected to use the major annual event to stress his party’s commitment to Nato and defence.
What don't you think. People have different options? Why I's it Hypocrisy? |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Feb 17, 2024 14:17:45 GMT
The labour thing that won in Wellinborough backed a nuclear weapons ban.......More than a dozen members of Labour's front bench call for Britain to scrap its nuclear deterrent despite the threat of Putin unleashing his own arsenal.......
Starmer set to attend major Munich security conference.....
Starmer is expected to be at a major security conference in Germany on Saturday for talks and meetings with world leaders.
The Labour leader will arrive at the Munich Security Conference fresh from two by-election victories, with Sir Keir expected to use the major annual event to stress his party’s commitment to Nato and defence.
What don't you think. People have different options? Why I's it Hypocrisy?Only last week starmer was supporting an antisemite. Lefty old bean..
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Feb 17, 2024 14:48:28 GMT
Its Desperation Time folks Time to wheel out what a particular politician once said, once did, a view they once held, or maybe even a club, society or group they once belonged to, in a desperate attempt to tarnish that politician. Enoch Powell once supported Britain leaving NATO, and allying ourselves with the Soviet Union.Sir Winston Churchill was a bit Left Wing in his younger days and was a member of the Liberal Party and spent 20 years criticising the Conservatives. The vast majority of Labour MPs back the OFFICIAL Labour Party policy, which is to not only retain our Nuclear Deterrant, but to replace it. The leader of the Labour Party has always been in favour of retention of Britains nuclear capability. Proof? |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Feb 17, 2024 15:26:08 GMT
The UK atomic bomb is one of the last great achievements of the post-war Attlee Government so I would be very surprised if Labour scrapped it.
|
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 15:40:04 GMT
Some quotes from an article in The New Statesman
" Britain and Russia, situated at the borders of Europe, had parallel interests; indeed, he held that “the existence of Russia has been the ultimate guarantee of the survival of Britain as an independent nation”, as, historically, “in 1812, in 1914, in 1942”. Russia did not constitute a serious threat to western Europe, certainly not to Britain"
THE FALKLANDS WAR
In 1982 Enoch Powell seized upon the United States dithering as to whether to back Britain as evidence that there was no special relationship.
Here .... the article goes on >> " Here momentary disillusion for the British people came only in 1982 when America – with interests in Latin American stability, and whose ambassador to the UN was the authoritarian-friendly Cold Warrior Jeane Kirkpatrick – dithered between Britain and Argentina during the early stages of the Falklands conflict. Powell rejoiced to see American self-interest so nakedly displayed, at last denuded of its “fairy-tale disguise sustained so sedulously since 1942”. Now Britons could at last see America as it really was"
And WIKIPEDIA >> While Thatcher was a strong believer in the special relationship with the United States, Powell saw the United States and Britain as rivals, and not as allies.[31]
On 2 June, Powell spoke against the stationing of US cruise missiles in the UK and asserted that the United States had an obsessive sense of mission and a hallucinatory view of international relations: "The American nation, as we have watched their proceedings during these last 25 years, will not, when another Atlantic crisis, another Middle East crisis or another European crisis comes, wait upon the deliberations of the British Cabinet, whose point of view and appreciation of the situation will be so different from their own"
|
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 15:53:46 GMT
The vast majority of Labour MPs back the OFFICIAL Labour Party policy, which is to not only retain our Nuclear Deterrant, but to replace it. The leader of the Labour Party has always been in favour of retention of Britains nuclear capability. The last labour government in 2010 passed a resolution to replace trident at Westminster , but nearly a third of its own mps, 94 , rejected the motion , and in the Scottish parliament , in a June 2007 symbolic vote about replacing trident , your Labour Party largely abstained. Labours policy on trident changes with the political winds . In various Scottish parliament manifestos such as the 2011 manifesto , labour didnt even mention trident replacement once. The last labour prime minister wanted to cut the amount of subs.  |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 16:47:19 GMT
The last time that the Labour Party had a Unilateralist policy was 37 years ago
The idea that the Labour Party may return back to a Unilateralist policy was swept away by Tony Blair
The idea came back to prominence again when the Labour Party was hijacked by entryists and Jeremy Corbyn became the Labour leader, but Corbyn had a major problem, the majority of Labour MPs were oppossed to unilateralism.
As for Labour Party manifesto s for Scottish Parliamentary elections, lets remind posters and readers that Defence is not an issue or topic for the Scottish Parliament, same as Foreign policy, both been the sole domain of the United Kingdom government.
Whether or not the UK retains, drops or amends the nations nuclear weapons arsenal, or where submarines are to be based, is not a matter which will be decided in the Scottish Parliament.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Feb 17, 2024 16:59:23 GMT
Some quotes from an article in The New Statesman " Britain and Russia, situated at the borders of Europe, had parallel interests; indeed, he held that “the existence of Russia has been the ultimate guarantee of the survival of Britain as an independent nation”, as, historically, “in 1812, in 1914, in 1942”. Russia did not constitute a serious threat to western Europe, certainly not to Britain" THE FALKLANDS WAR In 1982 Enoch Powell seized upon the United States dithering as to whether to back Britain as evidence that there was no special relationship. Here .... the article goes on >> " Here momentary disillusion for the British people came only in 1982 when America – with interests in Latin American stability, and whose ambassador to the UN was the authoritarian-friendly Cold Warrior Jeane Kirkpatrick – dithered between Britain and Argentina during the early stages of the Falklands conflict. Powell rejoiced to see American self-interest so nakedly displayed, at last denuded of its “fairy-tale disguise sustained so sedulously since 1942”. Now Britons could at last see America as it really was" And WIKIPEDIA >> While Thatcher was a strong believer in the special relationship with the United States, Powell saw the United States and Britain as rivals, and not as allies.[31] On 2 June, Powell spoke against the stationing of US cruise missiles in the UK and asserted that the United States had an obsessive sense of mission and a hallucinatory view of international relations: "The American nation, as we have watched their proceedings during these last 25 years, will not, when another Atlantic crisis, another Middle East crisis or another European crisis comes, wait upon the deliberations of the British Cabinet, whose point of view and appreciation of the situation will be so different from their own" I wouldn't have you down as a fan of Powell but I think we'd agree that he was right here (as he was on most other matters, although I'm sure that you'll beg to differ). |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Feb 17, 2024 17:01:35 GMT
The last time that the Labour Party had a Unilateralist policy was 37 years ago The idea that the Labour Party may return back to a Unilateralist policy was swept away by Tony Blair... LOL!  One of B'liars few talents was keeping the lid on the loony left. Neither Corbyn nor Starmer share that ability. As I suspect we're about to find out. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 17:11:42 GMT
As for Labour Party manifesto s for Scottish Parliamentary elections, lets remind posters and readers that Defence is not an issue or topic for the Scottish Parliament, same as Foreign policy, both been the sole domain of the United Kingdom government. Whether or not the UK retains, drops or amends the nations nuclear weapons arsenal, or where submarines are to be based, is not a matter which will be decided in the Scottish Parliament. That's why I pointed out the vote was symbolic in case you missed the word in my post earlier. It's important though in scotland as the majority of the public were consistentlyly against trident renewal , and having the submarines based 29 miles from our largest city. Hence labour in Scotlands cowardice on the issue , and general long term ambiguity on the subject , which you clearly highlight is not for the little people in Holyrood to decide. , but the big boys in the master parliament of which keir starmer dictates party policy which is what ive been arguing with your fellow traveller see2 on this forum for days about. |
|
|
|
Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 17:37:36 GMT
Rightly or wrongly Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom, apparently in line with the wishes of those who voted in the referendum of ten years ago.
Most people in the United Kingdom are in favour of retaining the nations nuclear capability, my guess is probably even more so now in view of circumstances.
Foreign policy and Defence is never an area of determination or consideration for autonomous, devolved or regional / provincial governments, and the people of Scotland are fairly represented on an equal footing in Westminser with the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
All major political parties have issues which from time to time divide them, with the Tories its been Europe, and I am sure there are areas of contention within the SNP.
At this present time, the Labour policy on our nuclear weapons is that they remain, and they will be modernised, and there is very little chance of that been any different in the forseeable future.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Feb 17, 2024 17:52:06 GMT
Some quotes from an article in The New Statesman " Britain and Russia, situated at the borders of Europe, had parallel interests; indeed, he held that “the existence of Russia has been the ultimate guarantee of the survival of Britain as an independent nation”, as, historically, “in 1812, in 1914, in 1942”. Russia did not constitute a serious threat to western Europe, certainly not to Britain" THE FALKLANDS WAR In 1982 Enoch Powell seized upon the United States dithering as to whether to back Britain as evidence that there was no special relationship. Here .... the article goes on >> " Here momentary disillusion for the British people came only in 1982 when America – with interests in Latin American stability, and whose ambassador to the UN was the authoritarian-friendly Cold Warrior Jeane Kirkpatrick – dithered between Britain and Argentina during the early stages of the Falklands conflict. Powell rejoiced to see American self-interest so nakedly displayed, at last denuded of its “fairy-tale disguise sustained so sedulously since 1942”. Now Britons could at last see America as it really was" And WIKIPEDIA >> While Thatcher was a strong believer in the special relationship with the United States, Powell saw the United States and Britain as rivals, and not as allies.[31] On 2 June, Powell spoke against the stationing of US cruise missiles in the UK and asserted that the United States had an obsessive sense of mission and a hallucinatory view of international relations: "The American nation, as we have watched their proceedings during these last 25 years, will not, when another Atlantic crisis, another Middle East crisis or another European crisis comes, wait upon the deliberations of the British Cabinet, whose point of view and appreciation of the situation will be so different from their own" So you admit your claim that “Enoch Powell once supported Britain leaving NATO, and allying ourselves with the Soviet Union” was false then. |
|
