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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 17:52:56 GMT
Rightly or wrongly Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom, apparently in line with the wishes of those who voted in the referendum of ten years ago. Most people in the United Kingdom are in favour of retaining the nations nuclear capability, my guess is probably even more so now in view of circumstances. Foreign policy and Defence is never an area of determination or consideration for autonomous, devolved or regional / provincial governments, and the people of Scotland are fairly represented on an equal footing in Westminser with the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland. All major political parties have issues which from time to time divide them, with the Tories its been Europe, and I am sure there are areas of contention within the SNP. At this present time, the Labour policy on our nuclear weapons is that they remain, and they will be modernised, and there is very little chance of that been any different in the forseeable future. Thats all irrelevant to my point. You earlier talked about more honesty in politics , then you come out with labours dishonest waffle on various subjects time and again , this time on trident. My point , irrelevant of scot indy , Holyrood or anything else , is labours utter duplicity on the trident issue as in much else. Knowing full well Scottish peoples opposition to trident , they try and tell us one thing , while saying another to the good people of England. Facing two ways at the same time is labours achilles heel. Labour even symbollically voted against trident renewal in 2015 at their Scottish party conference , then two years later , cast that vote aside for the good of the party in London at the 2017 election. You talk about political honesty , but we all know your party will say anything to anyone to get elected . Scottish Labour has dropped its opposition to Trident in its 2017 general election manifesto.
The new manifesto says “Defence is a reserved issue and UK Labour continues to support the renewal of the Trident nuclear deterrent.”
Arthur West, Scottish CND chair, said:
“Scottish CND were very pleased when the Scottish Labour Party Conference of 2015 adopted a policy supporting non-renewal of Trident. However, this vote seems to have been ignored when the manifesto was being compiled.
“It is frankly astonishing that the Scottish Labour Party have ignored a democratic vote at their party conference [in 2015] which put them on the same side as the majority of the Scottish public in opposing Trident renewal.
“Giving support to Trident renewal is unjustifiable from a moral and economic point of view. It could also prove electorally damaging to the Labour Party in Scotland.”
cnduk.org/scottish-labour-trident-u-turn/ |
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Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 18:00:37 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons
After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence.
Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union.
Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 17, 2024 18:04:50 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union. Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. You have conflated two views to make a false claim. You are claiming that Powell wanted to leave NATO and join forces with a totalitarian Soviet Union . Its dishonest and completely wrong . |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:07:27 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union. Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. im no grammar pedant , but it would be helpful if you could learn to use the quoting system , which is fairly straightforward , so we can keep clear who you are responding to when flitting from thread to thread. You've made a claim , bently is asking you to back it up , which you appear to be unable to do so far. It's dishonest to make a claim , and then be unable to support it . The very honesty you were earlier demanding . Practice what you preach. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:09:38 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union. Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. Its dishonest and completely wrong . Thats the Labour Party and its supporters for you. dishonest , and almost always completely wrong . They have the cheek to moan about honesty , and wonder why uk politics is such a fucking cesspit ever since that man Blair came to power. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 17, 2024 18:13:51 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union.
Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. Absolutely no evidence for that claim at all..  |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 17, 2024 18:13:52 GMT
Its dishonest and completely wrong . Thats the Labour Party and its supporters for you. dishonest , and almost always completely wrong . They have the cheek to moan about honesty , and wonder why uk politics is such a fucking cesspit ever since that man Blair came to power. The idea that Powell was the example of the ultimate Tory hero is ridiculous too. Lefties saying ‘ Enoch said that ‘ and expecting conservatives to rub their chin is risible . Going one further and making up stuff is pathetic . |
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Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 18:14:11 GMT
Scottish Labour are a semi independent, autonomous section of the UK Labour Party, they have their own general secretary and their own conference.
Scottish Labour are entitled to have a differing viewpoint to the UK Labour Party, but it is up to the NEC and the Westminster Parliamentary Labour Party to determine national (UK) policy.
The fact that Welsh Labour and / or Scottish Labour may have differing viewpoints is actually a healthy sign of democracy.
Some may argue WHY does Scottish Labour have Defence on a manifesto to elections to the Scottish Parliament, the argument been that it is a pointless excercise and purely symbolic.
The Scottish conference vote to not renew Trident was ignored because the Scottish Labour Conference does not determine national (UK) policy, though they can of course influence it.
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:18:01 GMT
Thats the Labour Party and its supporters for you. dishonest , and almost always completely wrong . They have the cheek to moan about honesty , and wonder why uk politics is such a fucking cesspit ever since that man Blair came to power. . Going one further and making up stuff is pathetic . Did you see his post earlier on , on one of the threads to me talking about honesty in politics? I haven't laughed so hard since I read see 2 post earlier about brown abolishing boom and bust. These people are fucking mental. I really do believe they actually think we swallow the guff they come out with. ...and they wonder why the labour party is hated , and four fifths of the electorate won't vote them ? |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:23:23 GMT
Scottish Labour are a semi independent, autonomous section of the UK Labour Party. . Liar. Labour in scotland are an accounting unit of the uk party , who have no autonomy to set policy which the boss in London doesn't agree with. johann Lamont resigns as leader of Scottish Labour party .It is understood that she was unhappy that the general secretary of Scottish Labour, Ian Price, was to be removed from office without her being consulted. Lamont accused colleagues of trying to run Scotland “like a branch office of London”
www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/johann-lamont-resigns-scottish-labour-party-leader
but they dont. They have to toe the line , and voters aren't interested in viewpoints , but want to know what parties are offering policy wise. The point about trident of course is labours duplicity you were earlier complaining about in politics in general. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:26:36 GMT
Some may argue WHY does Scottish Labour have Defence on a manifesto to elections to the Scottish Parliament, the argument been that it is a pointless excercise and purely symbolic. The Scottish conference vote to not renew Trident was ignored because the Scottish Labour Conference does not determine national (UK) policy, though they can of course influence it. we know all this. Im telling you it was a propaganda stunt by labour in scotland to try and dishonestly fool the Scottish public. What part of my point are you not getting? You are too busy constantly droning on the party line on various subjects you aren't really addressing the nuance behind posts. |
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Post by witchfinder on Feb 17, 2024 18:27:12 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union. Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. im no grammar pedant , but it would be helpful if you could learn to use the quoting system , which is fairly straightforward , so we can keep clear who you are responding to when flitting from thread to thread. You've made a claim , bently is asking you to back it up , which you appear to be unable to do so far. It's dishonest to make a claim , and then be unable to support it . The very honesty you were earlier demanding . Practice what you preach. Read this passage from a Sean Gabb essay on Enoch Powell >> "Enoch Powell was as hostile to NATO as he was to the European Union – perhaps more so. He never blamed the French or Germans for wholesale bribery of our rulers, or for the occasional murder of dissenting politicians. He went to the grave convinced that Airey Neave had been murdered, in 1979, by the CIA because his policy on Northern Ireland was inconvenient to an American Government that wanted the Irish Republic to join NATO" Link www.seangabb.co.uk/enoch-powell-the-man-and-his-politics-2014-by-sean-gabb/ |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:29:55 GMT
No I do not, Enoch Powell was also for many years opposed to Britains independent nuclear weapons After the independence of India, which he also opposed, he turned his back on most international organisations, because he could see no role for a British sphere of influence. Powell was pretty much anti NATO, anti United Nations and of course opposed to the idea of a united Europe, he was certanly no friend of the United States, didn't believe in the so called "Special Relationship" and had huge affection for Russia and the Soviet Union.
Not your usual stereotypical "Rightwinger", he promoted the decriminalisation of Homosexuality, POSSIBLY partly because he himself had such tendancies, as claimed by many. Absolutely no evidence for that claim at all.. isnt it laughable how this Labour Party done has to harken back to myths about enoch Powell when most of us on this forum remember Blair cosying up to Putin when he was in power. Sir Tony Blair courted Vladimir Putin despite officials’ doubts
Former PM was keen to reach out to the Russian president and give him a seat at the top table, newly released archives show  |
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Post by thomas on Feb 17, 2024 18:30:42 GMT
im no grammar pedant , but it would be helpful if you could learn to use the quoting system , which is fairly straightforward , so we can keep clear who you are responding to when flitting from thread to thread. You've made a claim , bently is asking you to back it up , which you appear to be unable to do so far. It's dishonest to make a claim , and then be unable to support it . The very honesty you were earlier demanding . Practice what you preach. Read this passage from a Sean Gabb essay on Enoch Powell >> "Enoch Powell was as hostile to NATO as he was to the European Union – perhaps more so. He never blamed the French or Germans for wholesale bribery of our rulers, or for the occasional murder of dissenting politicians. He went to the grave convinced that Airey Neave had been murdered, in 1979, by the CIA because his policy on Northern Ireland was inconvenient to an American Government that wanted the Irish Republic to join NATO" Link www.seangabb.co.uk/enoch-powell-the-man-and-his-politics-2014-by-sean-gabb/why tell me? address the posters you are discussing the issue with. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 17, 2024 18:33:56 GMT
im no grammar pedant , but it would be helpful if you could learn to use the quoting system , which is fairly straightforward , so we can keep clear who you are responding to when flitting from thread to thread. You've made a claim , bently is asking you to back it up , which you appear to be unable to do so far. It's dishonest to make a claim , and then be unable to support it . The very honesty you were earlier demanding . Practice what you preach. Read this passage from a Sean Gabb essay on Enoch Powell >> "Enoch Powell was as hostile to NATO as he was to the European Union – perhaps more so. He never blamed the French or Germans for wholesale bribery of our rulers, or for the occasional murder of dissenting politicians. He went to the grave convinced that Airey Neave had been murdered, in 1979, by the CIA because his policy on Northern Ireland was inconvenient to an American Government that wanted the Irish Republic to join NATO" Link www.seangabb.co.uk/enoch-powell-the-man-and-his-politics-2014-by-sean-gabb/I don’t have a problem with accepting Powell was hostile to NATO , the EU and the US. Lots of people are and were. Its the bollocks that he wanted the UK to be an ally of the a Soviet Union that I don’t accept . Powell would have to have been a lunatic or a closet leftie with no comprehension of how catastrophic that would be for the UK. I don’t think he was . I don’t think I am . That only leaves the one(s) that claim it . |
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