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Post by oracle75 on Feb 20, 2024 22:28:42 GMT
Who cares? The Brussels mafia are another lot who lie and cheat at every opportunity. Would you care to clarify that? While yet another Tory MP is thrown out of office for those very things.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 20, 2024 22:29:41 GMT
If the UK economy had grown by another 5% since 2016 (as the report claimed) that doesn't mean we would not still be in recession. Dont be silly. In the first place you wouldnt have had to borrow your entire GDP plus interest. Investment in the UK would have been far more attractive. And you wouldnt have wasted tens if millions on customs costs. All elements of GDP. I suggest it is you who cannot see how integrally the UK economy is interlaced with the global economy no matter how "sovereign" you feel. Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 21, 2024 1:18:29 GMT
Brexit was not thing until 2015 Prices were ratcheted up, up, up every year. There was not a year that council tax, council car parking, business rates, electricity, gas, you fucking name it did not rise, rise, rise since i started being taxed routinely on my income which would have been 1977 Brexit responsible for that ? Fuck off. Fucking EEC membership caused lots of it The UK was always free to pay what it could for work done. The EEC. Did not set wages. Remember UK workers going to Germany for better wages while Greece paid very little...often because work was done out of sight of the tax authorities. And the promise of Brexit was even higher wages, which in most cases didnt happen, particularly in the pubblic sector controlled by those who sold the idea. The EEC and EU have very little if anything to say about wages and taxation. The only taxations linked to the EU is VAT and that is flexible. I sm afraid you are still not aware of what the EU does and does not involve itself with. Hence you are still gullible to the lies you were told. None of which has the slightest relevance to the way prices of things generally set by councils rocketed in the five years before Cameron opened his gob and promised us a referendum. Your pathetic attempts to drag this strawman into the argument does you no crefit
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 21, 2024 19:26:03 GMT
The UK was always free to pay what it could for work done. The EEC. Did not set wages. Remember UK workers going to Germany for better wages while Greece paid very little...often because work was done out of sight of the tax authorities. And the promise of Brexit was even higher wages, which in most cases didnt happen, particularly in the pubblic sector controlled by those who sold the idea. The EEC and EU have very little if anything to say about wages and taxation. The only taxations linked to the EU is VAT and that is flexible. I sm afraid you are still not aware of what the EU does and does not involve itself with. Hence you are still gullible to the lies you were told. None of which has the slightest relevance to the way prices of things generally set by councils rocketed in the five years before Cameron opened his gob and promised us a referendum. Your pathetic attempts to drag this strawman into the argument does you no crefit Councils' costs are for materials and labour. They get their finance from central government and rarely get what they need, so product and services go down. It started with Cameron's austerity but has continued because of inflation and the poor state of the UK economy. You have not offered any evidence of "things generally set by councils rocketing". What "things"? Rocketed compared to when? Pre austerity, councils filled potholes, kept and stocked libraries, installed tram systems, built and maintained schools and hospitals and wondrously offered hospital staff free parking. All things and more, remembered as "the good old days". All gone under Tory control and still diminishing. NONE OF WHICH HAD ANY CONNECTION WITH THE EEC. The EEC had no power to limit or affect national budgets. I repeat. THE EEC HAD NO SAY IN NATIONAL BUDGETS OR HOW THEY SPENT/ALLOCATED TAXATION, INVESTMENT OR INTEREST RATES. And it still doesnt. You would also make a better impression if you stopped insulting others when you make unfounded correlations based on myths.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 21, 2024 19:41:23 GMT
Dont be silly. In the first place you wouldnt have had to borrow your entire GDP plus interest. Investment in the UK would have been far more attractive. And you wouldnt have wasted tens if millions on customs costs. All elements of GDP. I suggest it is you who cannot see how integrally the UK economy is interlaced with the global economy no matter how "sovereign" you feel. Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. FFS do stop telling me about page one of "economics 101". And do stop refuting what you just said. If a country grows by 10% IT WONT BE IN RECESSION UNTIL ITS GDP SHRINKS FROM WHATEVER LEVEL IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS QUARTER OVER 2 CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS. Recession is relative only to the previous quarter, not over a number of years. I didnt say the UK was unusual. I DID correct the notion that the Eurozone was in recession. And that the UK was somehow immune to recessions.
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Post by Red Rackham on Feb 21, 2024 19:58:43 GMT
Where is Brexit when you need it? LOL, you must be thrilled.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 21, 2024 20:58:27 GMT
None of which has the slightest relevance to the way prices of things generally set by councils rocketed in the five years before Cameron opened his gob and promised us a referendum. Your pathetic attempts to drag this strawman into the argument does you no crefit Councils' costs are for materials and labour. They get their finance from central government and rarely get what they need, so product and services go down. It started with Cameron's austerity but has continued because of inflation and the poor state of the UK economy. You have not offered any evidence of "things generally set by councils rocketing". What "things"? Rocketed compared to when? Pre austerity, councils filled potholes, kept and stocked libraries, installed tram systems, built and maintained schools and hospitals and wondrously offered hospital staff free parking. All things and more, remembered as "the good old days". All gone under Tory control and still diminishing. NONE OF WHICH HAD ANY CONNECTION WITH THE EEC. The EEC had no power to limit or affect national budgets. I repeat. THE EEC HAD NO SAY IN NATIONAL BUDGETS OR HOW THEY SPENT/ALLOCATED TAXATION, INVESTMENT OR INTEREST RATES. And it still doesnt. You would also make a better impression if you stopped insulting others when you make unfounded correlations based on myths. you are the one who brought the issue of a political campaign started in 2015 in desperation by a man keen to divert attention from his party’s infighting into a discussion of economic events occurring tive to ten years earlier There were multiple reports, polls and media articles covering the menial increase in wages after Gordon Brown chucked god knows how much down the black hole of his post sub prime meltdown, all of which also cover tax, business rate, council tax and utility bill rides biting ever deeper into the menial to nonexistent salary increases offered yo the average man over this period.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 21, 2024 22:09:38 GMT
Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. FFS do stop telling me about page one of "economics 101". And do stop refuting what you just said. If a country grows by 10% IT WONT BE IN RECESSION UNTIL ITS GDP SHRINKS FROM WHATEVER LEVEL IT WAS IN THE PREVIOUS QUARTER OVER 2 CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS. Recession is relative only to the previous quarter, not over a number of years. I didnt say the UK was unusual. I DID correct the notion that the Eurozone was in recession. And that the UK was somehow immune to recessions. If you say you now know what a recession is why did you claim that: 'Brexit has cost the UK appproximately 5%of its GDP. 5% would keep the UK comfortably out of recession.'Which is blatantly false as you have now admitted.
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Post by see2 on Feb 22, 2024 10:25:43 GMT
Dont be silly. In the first place you wouldnt have had to borrow your entire GDP plus interest. Investment in the UK would have been far more attractive. And you wouldnt have wasted tens if millions on customs costs. All elements of GDP. I suggest it is you who cannot see how integrally the UK economy is interlaced with the global economy no matter how "sovereign" you feel. Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. Your need to make excuses shouldn't lead you to dismiss the UKs position just because SOME EU countries have tasted recession. Don't forget the UK is the new super free powerhouse thanks to Brexit.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2024 11:12:33 GMT
Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. Your need to make excuses shouldn't lead you to dismiss the UKs position just because SOME EU countries have tasted recession. Don't forget the UK is the new super free powerhouse thanks to Brexit. Well in the last 14 years the Tories have certainly tested to destruction any reasonable notion that they are the party of sound economic management. Clearly their management of both the economy and the public finances has been utterly disastrous. I have my issues with New Labour and Blair as you know, but only a blinkered fool who is kidding themselves could deny that for whatever reason, things were so much better for most of us in those years. Until the crash the public finances were in pretty good shape, growth was much more substantial, pensioner poverty was virtually eliminated, child poverty greatly reduced, and we could still mostly rely on public services. There were far fewer food banks and most working people felt better off than they do now. Since 2010 we have seen nothing but a constant display of economic shit shows. The Tories in fact were and are so economically illiterate that they do not seem to understand the difference between a household budget and a national one. The difference can be simply spelt out. In a household budget spending increases do not increase income nor do spending cuts reduce income. In a national budget they can do both. Sensible economics requires far more nous than the Tories have shown, in that they need to understand which types of spending increases actually more than pay for themselves in increased national income, and which do not, as well as understanding which spending cuts do not reduce income by much and which ones do. The Tories appear to be so economically inept that they fail to understand such basic economics.
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Post by buccaneer on Feb 22, 2024 11:17:40 GMT
I point the finger of blame far more at the Bank of England than the government on recession, says Nigel Farage....
He would say that, wouldnt he? He never included the BoE when he touted the benefits of Brexit. The closest he got was a promise of cheaper clothes and shoes. Before he moved his business to Ireland to stay in the EU. While telling you Brexit was the magic word to solve all your problems. Now problems are the fault of something else already there pre-Brexit in reality. Brexit has cost the UK appproximately 5%of its GDP. 5% would keep the UK comfortably out of recession. You need stop repeating this lie. It does little for whatever credibility you have as a poster on here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2024 11:20:48 GMT
Dont be silly. In the first place you wouldnt have had to borrow your entire GDP plus interest. Investment in the UK would have been far more attractive. And you wouldnt have wasted tens if millions on customs costs. All elements of GDP. I suggest it is you who cannot see how integrally the UK economy is interlaced with the global economy no matter how "sovereign" you feel. Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. Your need to sugar coat reality and make excuses for our poor economic performance under your lot cannot gainsay the fact that we are now in recession. Talk of how wonderful things were in the 5 years before that does not change that fact, especially since things were actually pretty poor then as well. Ever since the Tories came to power growth has been anaemic, and the public are increasingly recognising this for the gross economic failure that it is. As such the Tories are now so irretrievably unpopular, that a grey card board cut out could defeat them. Which is indeed fortunate for Starmer.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 22, 2024 11:45:34 GMT
Look - if you dont know what the definition of a recession is just ask. It is two consecutive quarters of economic contraction - so you could have grown an extra 10% in the previous 5 years and still be in recession. Countries all across Europe have suffered recessions over the past year so the UK is not experiencing anything unusual. Your need to sugar coat reality and make excuses for our poor economic performance under your lot cannot gainsay the fact that we are now in recession. Talk of how wonderful things were in the 5 years before that does not change that fact, especially since things were actually pretty poor then as well. Ever since the Tories came to power growth has been anaemic, and the public are increasingly recognising this for the gross economic failure that it is. As such the Tories are now so irretrievably unpopular, that a grey card board cut out could defeat them. Which is indeed fortunate for Starmer. I hate to point it out but I have already said that I am surprised we did not enter recession earlier - perhaps you missed that?
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Post by Orac on Feb 22, 2024 11:47:30 GMT
Your need to make excuses shouldn't lead you to dismiss the UKs position just because SOME EU countries have tasted recession. Don't forget the UK is the new super free powerhouse thanks to Brexit. Well in the last 14 years the Tories have certainly tested to destruction any reasonable notion that they are the party of sound economic management. Clearly their management of both the economy and the public finances has been utterly disastrous. I think this is you rather reaching and reaching for the kind of conclusions you would prefer people came to. I think most conservatives see it somewhat differently - that the Conservatives have failed to confront the mob it needed to confront in order to have any chance of managing the economy in anything other than 'managed decline'. I think most conservatives see that , to the extent they moved the needle at all, they did 'okayish' on this front. The problem being they hardly moved the needle at all on any front and those needles needed to be moved. A lot of the criticism of the Conservatives is essentially 'negative' - ie absence - that the situation needed a 'bloodbath of the vampires' and they did practically nothing on any important front. Of course, 'sitting back and letting everything fall apart' may as well be enemy action if you are put in control to fix the situation. There is no point voting for a party that is not going to do anything.
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Post by oracle75 on Feb 22, 2024 13:09:54 GMT
Councils' costs are for materials and labour. They get their finance from central government and rarely get what they need, so product and services go down. It started with Cameron's austerity but has continued because of inflation and the poor state of the UK economy. You have not offered any evidence of "things generally set by councils rocketing". What "things"? Rocketed compared to when? Pre austerity, councils filled potholes, kept and stocked libraries, installed tram systems, built and maintained schools and hospitals and wondrously offered hospital staff free parking. All things and more, remembered as "the good old days". All gone under Tory control and still diminishing. NONE OF WHICH HAD ANY CONNECTION WITH THE EEC. The EEC had no power to limit or affect national budgets. I repeat. THE EEC HAD NO SAY IN NATIONAL BUDGETS OR HOW THEY SPENT/ALLOCATED TAXATION, INVESTMENT OR INTEREST RATES. And it still doesnt. You would also make a better impression if you stopped insulting others when you make unfounded correlations based on myths. you are the one who brought the issue of a political campaign started in 2015 in desperation by a man keen to divert attention from his party’s infighting into a discussion of economic events occurring tive to ten years earlier There were multiple reports, polls and media articles covering the menial increase in wages after Gordon Brown chucked god knows how much down the black hole of his post sub prime meltdown, all of which also cover tax, business rate, council tax and utility bill rides biting ever deeper into the menial to nonexistent salary increases offered yo the average man over this period. It was tou qho tried to make wgatwver your com0laints are, the fault of the EEC. Please stop shifting goalposts.
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