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Post by Vinny on Feb 9, 2024 14:26:35 GMT
Look, with the greatest of respect I remember you rubbing our faces in the polls on the old Democracy Forum.
I don't exepct the Tories to win the next General Election (reason Covid), but I don't expect Labour to do nearly as well as you imagine, because most people aren't party political and aren't thrilled by any party.
Labour has under 400,000 members.
The Conservative Party has under 200,000 members.
The Liberal Democrats have less than a hundred thousand members.
There are at least 47 million registered voters in the UK, possibly as many as 50 million now.
And every single person has their own mind.
In order to defeat the Tories, you need the votes of those you derided as "thick" "racist" or "duped".
And you cannot win voters over by insulting them.
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Polling
Feb 9, 2024 14:38:24 GMT
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 9, 2024 14:38:24 GMT
Look, with the greatest of respect I remember you rubbing our faces in the polls on the old Democracy Forum. I don't exepct the Tories to win the next General Election (reason Covid), but I don't expect Labour to do nearly as well as you imagine, because most people aren't party political and aren't thrilled by any party. Labour has under 400,000 members. The Conservative Party has under 200,000 members. The Liberal Democrats have less than a hundred thousand members. There are at least 47 million registered voters in the UK, possibly as many as 50 million now. And every single person has their own mind. In order to defeat the Tories, you need the votes of those you derided as "thick" "racist" or "duped". And you cannot win voters over by insulting them. Racist is a word i use very lightly only use when. Approiate Me and you have had many disagreement over immigration have I ever called you a Racist . |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 9, 2024 17:03:30 GMT
Your tribe has treated everyone outside it as ignorant, racist, uneducated, bigoted oafs rather than people with a point of view and a vote.
This isn't personal. But until Labour learn that in order to govern they need to win the votes of the people who elected the Tories, they will struggle.
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Polling
Feb 9, 2024 21:17:43 GMT
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Post by Totheleft on Feb 9, 2024 21:17:43 GMT
Your tribe has treated everyone outside it as ignorant, racist, uneducated, bigoted oafs rather than people with a point of view and a vote. This isn't personal. But until Labour learn that in order to govern they need to win the votes of the people who elected the Tories, they will struggle. Your tribe has treated everyone outside it as ignorant, racist, uneducated, bigoted oafs rather than people with a point of view and a vote. Are you saying that only apply to people Who votes Tory only fit into that Mode. I know someone who fits in that definitely fits in that mode. Said he Never voted for a political party because they don't share his views. |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 9, 2024 22:39:32 GMT
All voters matter, but elections and referendums are won by building bridges, not boasting about polls or tribalism.
You need the votes of those who defeated you last time.
And that requires policies worth voting for.
Recognising the desire of the British people to be independent of the EU, but trading with it freely.
We have a free trade agreement with it so leave that be.
Recognising the desire of the British people to not be flooded with illegal immigrants from safe countries such as Albania.
Create tented asylum processing facilities on remote Scottish islands and start deporting.
Recognising that our tariffs don't need to be levied on things we don't grow or make and zero rating such things.
Giving better aid to Ukraine. So far, it's been a lot of gestures but not much help at all.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 9, 2024 23:06:55 GMT
The lib dems seemed to go into a room about 2 years ago to work out what they are going to be campaigning on and they haven't come out yet . They have been in there for that long everyone has forgotten about them , which isn't a bad thing . Polling ? Nobody I know, and I have asked in the past, has ever been asked a question by a pollster with regard to voting intention . For that reason I take them with a pinch of salt As all will know, the liberal democrat vote collapsed after Nick Clegg’s decision to prop up the Tories. Now i hope you all remember Brown refused to accept it was the end of his rental of Number Ten for ages and the reason for that was quite simply shown by Jeremy Vine in a short CGI piece to camera about thee days after the election that paid true homage to The Swingometer Man of the fifties and sixties. Vine showed how if EVERYONE joined brown in a coalition of the talent-less, with Sinn Fein refusing to take their seats as always, because of the need to swear allegiance to the sovereign, he could run a government with a majority of two But Alex Salmand refused to enter into any agreement beyond an understanding that he would direct SNP MP’s to vote with Brown on an issue by issue basis provided Brown bribed him sufficiently to ensure each vote. Brown was still in discussions with Salmand when Clegg phoned Tory Central Office and the following morning Brown called the Queen So it could be argued Salmand forced his hand. But what was done was done. Clegg of course became the errand boy for Cameron’s bad news and rigged the country for years of zombie parliament hell with his fixed term parliament demands. But in the sticks his party sank without trace. I stood and watched the 2011 losses in the assembly and the 2012 council seat massacre and witnessed the activist violence at Sophia Gardens personally. The Lib Dems in wales sank faster than the titanic and stay sunk. I have no idea what other minor parties might do at the next GE but it is an utter irrelevance they will get nowhere but here the Lib Dens will, i predict, do as well as Howlin’ Laud Hope and that’s a shame because the Monster Raving Looney Party’s Minister of Untruth And Misinformation is an intelligent chap who deserves electoral success |
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Post by dodgydave on Feb 10, 2024 1:18:34 GMT
Funny how Losers want to change the voting System. Let's look.at the votes under a PR System In 2019 what had a large turn out Power to labour bring it on The 2019 General Elections in Great Britain under proportional representation (STV) Conservative 312 -53 Labour 221 +18 Liberal Democrat 59 +48 Scottish National Party 30 -18 Plaid Cymru 5 +1 Brexit Party 3 +3 Green Party 2 +1 Those figures are useless, as people wouldn't vote the same under PR. They are just spin figures to claim a party did better than they did. FPTP: The Speaker is my MP so there is zero point in voting. There are many safe seats where it pointless voting. It is pointless voting for anybody other than Conservative, Labour, Libdem. Also, under PR the Tories and Labour wouldn't exist in their current form. Labour would definitely split into Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists. Likewise the Tories would split into a centre-right and a right wing. Green party would probably grow massively too. |
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Post by Dogburger on Feb 10, 2024 9:44:16 GMT
Your synopsis is very unlikely Pacifico, but even if it were to happen the answer would be yes. On 9% of the vote, the LDs should get around 60 of 650 seats but will likely get only around 30. That's not fair. I agree the electoral system looks likely to be even more unfair on Reform. It should be changed. The 2015 election showed how unfair it is on parties who's vote is spread across the nation as opposed to just having local support SNP 4.7 vote share 56 seats lib dems 7.9 / 8 seats Angry Prods 0.6 / 8 seats Angry Paddy's 0.6 / 4 seats And so on with the real travesty being UKIP 12.6 and 1 seat (and he left) . Reform are likely to meet the same fate |
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Post by dodgydave on Feb 10, 2024 20:53:39 GMT
Your synopsis is very unlikely Pacifico, but even if it were to happen the answer would be yes. On 9% of the vote, the LDs should get around 60 of 650 seats but will likely get only around 30. That's not fair. I agree the electoral system looks likely to be even more unfair on Reform. It should be changed. The 2015 election showed how unfair it is on parties who's vote is spread across the nation as opposed to just having local support SNP 4.7 vote share 56 seats lib dems 7.9 / 8 seats Angry Prods 0.6 / 8 seats Angry Paddy's 0.6 / 4 seats And so on with the real travesty being UKIP 12.6 and 1 seat (and he left) . Reform are likely to meet the same fate Again, that is nonsense, because people would vote differently under PR, so it is impossible to transfer the figures from a FPTP election to a PR projection. |
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Post by thomas on Feb 10, 2024 21:05:20 GMT
Your synopsis is very unlikely Pacifico, but even if it were to happen the answer would be yes. On 9% of the vote, the LDs should get around 60 of 650 seats but will likely get only around 30. That's not fair. I agree the electoral system looks likely to be even more unfair on Reform. It should be changed. The 2015 election showed how unfair it is on parties who's vote is spread across the nation as opposed to just having local support SNP 4.7 vote share 56 seats lib dems 7.9 / 8 seats Angry Prods 0.6 / 8 seats Angry Paddy's 0.6 / 4 seats And so on with the real travesty being UKIP 12.6 and 1 seat (and he left) . Reform are likely to meet the same fate Thats a false projection. The snp didnt get 4.7% of the vote share . The snp dont stand across the uk , only in scotland hence the snp got 49.97% of the vote share in the country they stood in. Taking 56 Scottish seats , and then falsely arguing they got that off a share of the entire uk electorate is a nonsensical argument. I believe I have said before there Is a clear argument for England to have a form of pr. We can see daily the support for the two main parties breaking down and that the old two party fptp system is creaking and about to break. Making false argument s though doesn't help your cause. If I remember correct , UKIP lost numerous deposits in scotland in that election , and barely took over 1 % of the Scottish vote. Their problem was mainly in England , where they simply didnt poll high enough on a constituency basis to start taking seats in large volumes. Eh? This really is nonsense . UKIP had the same chance at election time in scotland as the snp , and they simply couldnt manage support as in scotland they were seen as a right wing English nationalist party hence why barely anyone voted them , and they were generally regarded as nothing more than an eccentric English pressure group. Standing uk wide( the uk isnt a nation , it's a multi national state ) doesn't harm labour liberal or the tories , so im not sure why you think it harms ukip? A bit of a weird conclusion there to be honest. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2024 23:47:42 GMT
Away from the main parties it seems that Reform are pulling away from the LibDems for third place and the Greens are closing in on the LibDems for 4th. Is it the Ed Davey effect and his participation in the Post Office scandal?. I think it has more to do with the fact that some people want something far more red bloodedly right wing than the Tories, whilst others want something far more genuinely left wing than Labour, and the Lib Dems are neither. Just a third option of more of the same |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2024 23:53:01 GMT
Boris Johnson backed for comeback by Tory minister after Rishi Sunak opens door.....
Don't you think the Tories are enough of shitshow already without inviting that lying clown back into contention? Do you have a death wish for the Tories or something? lol |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 11, 2024 7:35:48 GMT
Away from the main parties it seems that Reform are pulling away from the LibDems for third place and the Greens are closing in on the LibDems for 4th. Is it the Ed Davey effect and his participation in the Post Office scandal?. I think it has more to do with the fact that some people want something far more red bloodedly right wing than the Tories, whilst others want something far more genuinely left wing than Labour, and the Lib Dems are neither. Just a third option of more of the same very fair point. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 11, 2024 7:36:43 GMT
Boris Johnson backed for comeback by Tory minister after Rishi Sunak opens door.....
Don't you think the Tories are enough of shitshow already without inviting that lying clown back into contention? Do you have a death wish for the Tories or something? lol Could he do any worse? - support for the Toris was much higher when he was running the show. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 11, 2024 7:58:06 GMT
Boris Johnson backed for comeback by Tory minister after Rishi Sunak opens door.....
Don't you think the Tories are enough of shitshow already without inviting that lying clown back into contention? Do you have a death wish for the Tories or something? lol The panicked clamour for Boris Johnson is becoming difficult for No 10 to ignore, write GLEN OWEN and ANNA MIKHAILOVA. Will Rishi Sunak ever pick up the phone?.....
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