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Post by Orac on Feb 7, 2024 14:08:06 GMT
One thing that's odd is just how much Liz Truss' reputation among conservatives matters to people who aren't conservatives.
It seems to come up again and again and again
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Post by dappy on Feb 7, 2024 14:15:57 GMT
Do you not find it odd that those who want to move the Tory party to the Populist/UKIp/Reform seem to want to draw the electorates attention to the fact that those are the same policies tried (and in the electorates view) spectacularly failed by Truss. Why do you think they feel they need her? Genuinely feels odd to me.
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Post by Orac on Feb 7, 2024 14:19:08 GMT
Do you not find it odd that those who want to move the Tory party to the Populist/UKIp/Reform seem to want to draw the electorates attention to the fact that those are the same policies tried (and in the electorates view) spectacularly failed by Truss. Why do you think they feel they need her? Genuinely feels odd to me. It's quite possible they see it as part of principled stance against a fabric of lies / duplicity. It's certainly the way I see and i have often been accused of being a conservative. |
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Post by dappy on Feb 7, 2024 14:34:22 GMT
You think that these politicians trying to revolutionise the country are allowing Truss to front up their movement recognising she is an electoral liability because they think she was badly treated last time?
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Post by Orac on Feb 7, 2024 14:40:50 GMT
You think that these politicians trying to revolutionise the country are allowing Truss to front up their movement recognising she is an electoral liability because they think she was badly treated last time? I think they may well be doing it as a part of a principled stance in the face of a duplicitous and corrupt establishment |
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Post by dappy on Feb 7, 2024 14:44:31 GMT
So in other words , “yes”
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Post by andrewbrown on Feb 7, 2024 14:45:37 GMT
The vast majority don't consider Truss an abject failure ,she wasn't in charge for long enough to be so. Those that were paying attention saw a Conservative with Conservative policies and a plan for growth that the globalists didn't like . They wanted their man Sunak in charge so did all they could to prove him right with interest rate hikes and doom and gloom forecasts . The markets panicked and Truss was marched out of the room The irony of course that after spending a year dismissing Truss's tax cutting policies the first thing Hunt did (brought in to steady the fiscal ship) was , yep , cut taxes . It's necessary for growth he said , the time is right to cut taxes LOL So you could say if Hunt is being held up as the brains behind the current outfit is that Truss was far from a failure but that she was right all along . By the time Hunt has another round of tax cuts this year especially if he cuts corporation tax He will more or less be in the same place Truss was when she left No 10. I need to type quicker ,or stop watching the lunchtime news ,  So why did Tory polling collapse during her watch? Bearing in mind that it had fallen a great deal due to Boris, some stability was needed, and she certainly didn't provide that. In her defence, I would say that she is not a comfortable communicator and that probably didn't help her. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 7, 2024 14:53:59 GMT
Basically BlackIsWhite already said most of what i would have
Rishi was kicked into the long grass by the party membership despite being the parliamentary party’s choice and that says more about the party members not being able to deselect those they don't want than anything else.
To say Truss has been rejected by the majority of the electorate is bollocks. She had the right idea but was fucked over by Fishy Rishi and his pals in parliament and Threadneedle Street. And if you can’t see that you have the vision of Gordon Brown and the intellectual capacity of Diane Abbott.
Truss is stoking the boilers ready for the meltdown after no one goes to Rwanda AGAIN snd Starmer marches into number ten.
Ive seen Blair and Brown in full pissed off mode up close and fucking personal
I want to pay to book my seat at tory party hq for a friday sometime between may 2024 and feb 2025 because its gonna be epic
And for the record i don’t imagine Truss will be back in number ten any time soon. But i rather fancy that just as Heseltine did the deed that had to be done and outwardly paid the price as the ‘anyone but tarzan’ campaign launched, which ultimately gave us the grey man of politics, so i rather fancy someone from her new group will emerge to challenge and evict Starmer.
I don’t know who, and i don’t know they even exist in the group today, but i am pretty certain they will have a mindset close to that in this group.
I’d offer a bet on it but after five years of Starmer i’ll be dead of a bollixed nhs or starving to death and near bankrupt.
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 7, 2024 14:57:56 GMT
Can't honestly say I have ever been remotely influenced in my political opinions by a "celebrity" endorsement - whether to left or right. All very odd. She is entitled to her opinions of course. I do wonder if the proles will be overly influenced by the wife of a billionaire former soap star? Bit desperate maybe? i’ve never been influenced by a celebrity either. But those words are not hers are they they’re the words of everyone who has ever tried to run their own thing. Myself included |
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Post by Orac on Feb 7, 2024 15:00:55 GMT
So in other words , “yes” Obviously, politics is often about convincing others you are right, rather than just agreeing with an opinion you see as prevalent. Is this really alien territory to you? |
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Post by patman post on Feb 7, 2024 15:04:52 GMT
North of the border view:
PopCorn: Liz Truss claims Britain is 'full of secret Conservatives'
LIZ Truss has claimed Britain is “full of secret Conservatives” as she said her party had failed to take on the “left-wing extremists”.
The former prime minister, Britain’s shortest-serving head of government, addressed the launch of a new Tory faction called Popular Conservatives at an event in Westminster on Tuesday morning.
During her speech, Truss claimed “the left” worked to “take over our institutions” and said the new faction – dubbed PopCon – was geared towards “galvanising Conservative forces” in society.
Her appearance at the event came as it was revealed she currently ranked as Britain’s least popular politician, according to research by polling firm Savanta***.
Among those in the audience [was]..... Nigel Farage
But Farage told the PA news agency: “I would agree with a lot of what is said on the platform this morning, but none of it is going to be Conservative manifesto policy.”
The arch-Brexiteer and Reform UK founder said the group represents “a very small minority within the parliamentary Conservative Party”, which is now “so far away from the centre of gravity of most Conservative voters, it is almost untrue”.
Farage quashed speculation that he is seeking to join the Tory Party “at the moment, given what they stand for”.
“I’d rather be part of Reform, because that’s the real thing.”
***Chris Hopkins, political research director at Savanta, told HuffPost UK: “It is ironic that Popular Conservatism couldn’t find a more unpopular spokesperson if they actively tried.”
Seems like the ex-Tory spokesperson on Cheese and pig meat and who crashed the economy in her seven weeks in power, believes she can actually stir enough support for her antics...
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Post by dappy on Feb 7, 2024 15:11:18 GMT
So in other words , “yes” Obviously, politics is often about convincing others you are right, rather than just agreeing with an opinion you see as prevalent. Is this really alien territory to you? Of course. But you are arguing that not only are the "populists" taking on the task of convincing others they are right, they are doing it with one arm tied behind their back by deliberately reminding the electorate that it was exactly those policies that the electorate see as having failed so badly under Truss. It feels such a weird thing to do. |
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Post by Orac on Feb 7, 2024 15:20:36 GMT
Obviously, politics is often about convincing others you are right, rather than just agreeing with an opinion you see as prevalent. Is this really alien territory to you? Of course. But you are arguing that not only are the "populists" taking on the task of convincing others they are right, they are doing it with one arm tied behind their back by deliberately reminding the electorate that it was exactly those policies that the electorate see as having failed so badly under Truss. It feels such a weird thing to do. I guess their opinion is that the public are being predated by a corrupt and deceitful establishment and that Liz Truss is (perhaps) an example of this perspective. I'm guessing somewhat. I keep trying to point out that all you are encountering here is people disagreeing with you, but you seem to feel it is more meaningful than that - as if they wrong in some objective way What perplexes me is why you are so desperate about this - being supporter of neither. |
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Post by dappy on Feb 7, 2024 15:25:51 GMT
Well if that is their aim, we will see how the approach works. Feels a very odd strategy to me.
Your last line is a nonsensical diversion attempt (as you well know)
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Feb 7, 2024 16:35:02 GMT
Do you not find it odd that those who want to move the Tory party to the Populist/UKIp/Reform seem to want to draw the electorates attention to the fact that those are the same policies tried (and in the electorates view) spectacularly failed by Truss. Why do you think they feel they need her? Genuinely feels odd to me. They weren't tried and failed though, were they?
They were scuppered by vested interests before they began.
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