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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 5, 2024 13:55:27 GMT
You mean like requiring an annual MoT test? MOT tests are a good thing, they help maintain roadworthiness. I can remember when MoTs were first introduced in the 60s. After a couple of years all the old bangers and death-traps from the 30s and 40s and even some from the 20s just disappeared.
If you can't afford to run a car maintained to modern standards, including emissions, you shouldn't have one.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 5, 2024 14:33:06 GMT
But Vinny, what if people just carry on repairing ICE cars for years and years rather than buying new BEVS that have about a tenth of the functionality? A nightmare scenario. Fine by me, I'm waiting for hydrogen / or renewable hydrocarbons.
Existing electric car technology is not good enough.
Motorway service station charging infrastructure often requires diesel generators (so what's the point?).
Production of one electric vehicle involves as much CO2 as keeping an existing conventional vehicle on the road for 55,000 miles.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 5, 2024 14:41:00 GMT
MOT tests are a good thing, they help maintain roadworthiness. I can remember when MoTs were first introduced in the 60s. After a couple of years all the old bangers and death-traps from the 30s and 40s and even some from the 20s just disappeared.
If you can't afford to run a car maintained to modern standards, including emissions, you shouldn't have one.
I agree. But government should allow a car to be maintained. My 4x4 failed on emissions tests at its MOT earlier in the month.
It's not my daily driver and it being off the road for repair wasn't a big issue.
But if you want a laugh:
It's now been fixed and has an MOT again.
Repairs £460.
Engine power has improved significantly, emissions are now not only within specified limits but compatible with environmental requirements.
MPG improved significantly.
The environmental cost of repairing it was far lower than that of replacing it. |
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Post by Steve on Feb 5, 2024 14:54:48 GMT
That would be absolutely insane. The carbon footprint of building a brand new car is equivalent to fifty thousand miles of travelling in a second hand car. Keeping older vehicles on the road is demonstrably better for the environment. It's not about the environment. It's about control. Actually it's about some sad bloke on twitter exaggerating a story and Pacifico (and you) falling for it |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 5, 2024 14:59:59 GMT
In the bigger picture the UK has simply too many people, too many cars and too little road infrastructure.
Twenty million fewer people and ten million fewer cars would make it a much pleasanter place to live.
Or make that twenty and twenty. Then the number of cars per road km would be approaching that in France.
It's going to happen anyway, at least the reduction in vehicle numbers, as the age of cheap oil recedes into the distant past. Why not plan for it now and stop trying to pretend it's a problem that doesn't exist or one which can be fixed with Band-Aids.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 5, 2024 15:05:40 GMT
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Post by bancroft on Feb 5, 2024 15:28:21 GMT
It's all about saving EU motor manufacturers as no-one is buying or at least much reduced demand.
The second car market and older market should be allowed, otherwise it will be an attack on older cars and classic cars.
I've always suspected the EU is being controlled by corporate interests in the corridors of power so that part of the EU is opaque and the EU parliament just a rubber stamp.
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 5, 2024 15:40:39 GMT
All EU countries have special rules for classic cars 'old timers' twenty or more years old as long as they're not in daily use.
Nothing will change in that area.
It's in everybody's interest to drive marginal cars (and marginal owners) off the roads. They'll be less crowded, less polluted and less dangerous. What's not to like?
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Post by Vinny on Feb 5, 2024 15:42:40 GMT
The original post misreported a policy that hasn't even been finalised yet.
And from evidence available, so far I've seen nothing that it would apply in all cases, if it did, then even classic Ferraris like the 365 Daytona would be affected and would have to be scrapped and the millionaires who own such classics would be up in arms.
Same goes for other classics like the Miura.
It won't happen.
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 5, 2024 16:36:34 GMT
Just to introduce a little reality to the hysteria: "The European Commission’s office in Spain has clarified that the proposal does not intend to prevent necessary engine repairs or replacements in standard cars. The regulation specifies conditions under which a vehicle is deemed technically irreparable or residual. These include extensive damage, such as being cut, welded, burnt, submerged, or exhibiting irreversible technical defects. Controversially, a vehicle requiring major part replacements or whose repair costs exceed its market value could also be classified as residual." What has the decision on whether a car is economically repairable got to do with the Government?. If you have a car worth £2,000 and suddenly it needs a new gearbox that will cost £3,000 why should you be legally prevented from carrying out that repair if you so wish? This is simply a move to force people out of existing cars and onto public transport - all hail the god of Net Zero. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 5, 2024 16:40:16 GMT
The article states: A vehicle will be considered irreparable when any of its components cannot be repaired or replaced.Everything on a car can be repaired or replaced - I've chucked enough replacement engines into cars over the years to keep old cars on the road. |
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Post by Steve on Feb 5, 2024 16:45:21 GMT
If you look at the article the sad bloke on twitter referred to it's all about a policy to ensure no new cars after 2035 that use petrol or diesel. We have a similar policy. And the bit about no massive repairs to old cars is preventing someone doing a grandfather's axe on an old car to in effect make a new petrol driven car after then while claiming it's really an old car (but the chassis and engine have been changed) For example had Pacifico actually read the article he'd have seen this:
'The European Commission’s office in Spain has clarified that the proposal does not intend to prevent necessary engine repairs or replacements in standard cars.' |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 5, 2024 16:54:43 GMT
Just to introduce a little reality to the hysteria: "The European Commission’s office in Spain has clarified that the proposal does not intend to prevent necessary engine repairs or replacements in standard cars. The regulation specifies conditions under which a vehicle is deemed technically irreparable or residual. These include extensive damage, such as being cut, welded, burnt, submerged, or exhibiting irreversible technical defects. Controversially, a vehicle requiring major part replacements or whose repair costs exceed its market value could also be classified as residual." What has the decision on whether a car is economically repairable got to do with the Government?. If you have a car worth £2,000 and suddenly it needs a new gearbox that will cost £3,000 why should you be legally prevented from carrying out that repair if you so wish? This is simply a move to force people out of existing cars and onto public transport - all hail the god of Net Zero. What's so awful about that? |
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Post by Orac on Feb 5, 2024 17:20:40 GMT
What has the decision on whether a car is economically repairable got to do with the Government?. If you have a car worth £2,000 and suddenly it needs a new gearbox that will cost £3,000 why should you be legally prevented from carrying out that repair if you so wish? This is simply a move to force people out of existing cars and onto public transport - all hail the god of Net Zero. What's so awful about that? Did EU citizens vote to be restricted to public transport? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Feb 5, 2024 17:42:38 GMT
Is unrestricted personal mobility using the petroleum-powered conveyance of your choice a universal human right?
Does it make sense to organise society on such principles in a crowded and resource-poor region like Europe?
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