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Post by Orac on Jan 28, 2024 11:06:28 GMT
Personally, I think we need to bring back national service pronto, and use that and other methods to try to build back up a sense of national identity. This would have worked fifty years ago when were were still a relatively homogeneous population with a (more or less) single political identify. Attempting this now would just be providing training and expertise to future Muslim militia
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Post by see2 on Jan 28, 2024 11:43:02 GMT
His comment was nasty and deserved to be exposed as such, and your comment is just misguided OTT opinion. dont shoot the messenger. Im not responsible for the nasty anti English , anti Scottish and welsh comments by the likes of foulkes thorn berry and Robertson past and present. Labour hate the nations of the uk , as has been claimed above. Yours is an over the top superficial comment, that possibly gets fed by sad individuals in the bar room after a few pints. I have traveled to all points of these Islands plus a number of visits to Ireland. I have heard a number or low level comments against member countries of the UK, but I have only ever heard, or over heard, two bitter comments against a member country and they were against England. There is a major difference between throw away comments and hate.
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Post by dodgydave on Jan 29, 2024 3:47:53 GMT
It does lead to a wider conversation on identity. The majority left/middle is pushing self-hate of our history, and peddling victimhood, whilst saying pride in ones nation makes you a Nazi.The growing Muslims population is going to bring back problems of the past, where large numbers of people identify by religion, not by nationality. Personally, I think we need to bring back national service pronto, and use that and other methods to try to build back up a sense of national identity. If we do nothing, we will continue to divide ourselves, and become weaker and weaker... and history has shown what happens then... the once great civilisation collapses and is conquered. The gist of the first comment would have been loved by the likes of Goebbels, a shameful comment. Ah typical, roll out of the word "shameful" in a sad attempt to win an argument lol. Please prove me wrong, provide me with a post where you have talked about the great things that the UK / capitalism has achieved? While you are at it, show us where you have posted anything about a positive vision of the future, instead of "grrr evil tories picking on the working class". And your comment about Goebbels proved my point, you are just too thick to see it hahaha. I must have dreamt Emily Thornberry losing her job for mocking somebody flying an English flag DURING THE WORLD CUP hahaha. Neil Coyle didn't call Brexit voters "fat old racists" and "shitbag racist wankers"? Clive Lewis didn't say "racism was to blame for Brexit"? David Lammy didn't compare Brexiteers to Nazis either? lol.... I could literally list another dozen Labour MPs calling people Nazis. I think you owe me an apology for your "shamefully" slander.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2024 4:25:31 GMT
The gist of the first comment would have been loved by the likes of Goebbels, a shameful comment. Ah typical, roll out of the word "shameful" in a sad attempt to win an argument lol. Please prove me wrong, provide me with a post where you have talked about the great things that the UK / capitalism has achieved? While you are at it, show us where you have posted anything about a positive vision of the future, instead of "grrr evil tories picking on the working class". And your comment about Goebbels proved my point, you are just too thick to see it hahaha. I must have dreamt Emily Thornberry losing her job for mocking somebody flying an English flag DURING THE WORLD CUP hahaha. Neil Coyle didn't call Brexit voters "fat old racists" and "shitbag racist wankers"? Clive Lewis didn't say "racism was to blame for Brexit"? David Lammy didn't compare Brexiteers to Nazis either? lol.... I could literally list another dozen Labour MPs calling people Nazis. I think you owe me an apology for your "shamefully" slander. Whilst it is entirely wrong to say that all Brexit voters are racists, it is true to say that the Brexit vote would not have been won without them. There is a page on Facebook called Rage Against the Gammon. The above rant is just the sort of thing that gets shared there for the rest of us to have a good laugh at. You might not be a Nazi. But you are a typical Little Englander in some of your posts.
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Post by sheepy on Jan 29, 2024 8:08:59 GMT
Ah typical, roll out of the word "shameful" in a sad attempt to win an argument lol. Please prove me wrong, provide me with a post where you have talked about the great things that the UK / capitalism has achieved? While you are at it, show us where you have posted anything about a positive vision of the future, instead of "grrr evil tories picking on the working class". And your comment about Goebbels proved my point, you are just too thick to see it hahaha. I must have dreamt Emily Thornberry losing her job for mocking somebody flying an English flag DURING THE WORLD CUP hahaha. Neil Coyle didn't call Brexit voters "fat old racists" and "shitbag racist wankers"? Clive Lewis didn't say "racism was to blame for Brexit"? David Lammy didn't compare Brexiteers to Nazis either? lol.... I could literally list another dozen Labour MPs calling people Nazis. I think you owe me an apology for your "shamefully" slander. Whilst it is entirely wrong to say that all Brexit voters are racists, it is true to say that the Brexit vote would not have been won without them. There is a page on Facebook called Rage Against the Gammon. The above rant is just the sort of thing that gets shared there for the rest of us to have a good laugh at. You might not be a Nazi. But you are a typical Little Englander in some of your posts. LOL rage against the gammon, hilarious, facebook is good for a laugh at the best of times, most of them are ambulance chasers of one kind or another.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 29, 2024 8:34:36 GMT
My understanding is that the Mind Zone is intended to be factually accurate yet the title of this thread is complete nonsense. The title is a statement of fact and I've provided a factual link from DW. The point of the thread is that Germany is experiencing exactly the same problems with increasing anti-Semitism as we are in England - and like England their politicians have been reluctant to attribute this to the rapid increase in their muslim population. They've simply attacked anti-semitism. But the German president has addressed the Arab/Palestinian population directly and called for them to speak out against it. Mishal Hussain's response to the German president is to say that anti-seimitism is nothing to do with muslims. This is also factual and she said it on "Today" last Friday. Yet the actual facts are that anti-semitism is heavily entrenched in muslim society as has become even more obvious with the anti-semitic chants of the pro-Hamas chants on the London marches. My point is that our politicians should also be calling for the muslim communities to stamp out their anti-semitism. As for RR's point, the OP conforms entirely to the requirements of the Mind Zone. It's a pity that some of the replies have been off-topic (like yours).
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Post by Orac on Jan 29, 2024 8:44:01 GMT
My understanding is that the Mind Zone is intended to be factually accurate yet the title of this thread is complete nonsense. Think of mind zone as 'polite discussion only zone'. There is no fact enforcement in mind-zone
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 29, 2024 8:55:41 GMT
It does lead to a wider conversation on identity. The majority left/middle is pushing self-hate of our history, and peddling victimhood, whilst saying pride in ones nation makes you a Nazi. The growing Muslims population is going to bring back problems of the past, where large numbers of people identify by religion, not by nationality. Personally, I think we need to bring back national service pronto, and use that and other methods to try to build back up a sense of national identity. If we do nothing, we will continue to divide ourselves, and become weaker and weaker... and history has shown what happens then... the once great civilisation collapses and is conquered. I was listening to Ralph Schoellhammer the other day (who BTW is a total genius IMO) and he was arguing that the old definitions such as Left and Right now need redefinition. The Left are now are defined by their hatred of their own country and the Right by democracy and patriotism. I think this is a very accurate broad definition of the new political line. He went on to say that the British Left spend their time apologising for almost everything the UK has done - seeking "atonement". But he said, speaking as a German, he knows what it's like to be from a country that NEEDS to seek atonement for its historical deeds - but the UK has NO reason to be apologising. Most of what we've done has been with the best of intentions and has helped the world. (The obvious exception being Blair's disastrous wars in the ME). It's time to stop apologising and start targeting the real culprits..
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Post by dappy on Jan 29, 2024 9:34:27 GMT
My understanding is that the Mind Zone is intended to be factually accurate yet the title of this thread is complete nonsense. The title is a statement of fact and I've provided a factual link from DW. The point of the thread is that Germany is experiencing exactly the same problems with increasing anti-Semitism as we are in England - and like England their politicians have been reluctant to attribute this to the rapid increase in their muslim population. They've simply attacked anti-semitism. But the German president has addressed the Arab/Palestinian population directly and called for them to speak out against it. Mishal Hussain's response to the German president is to say that anti-seimitism is nothing to do with muslims. This is also factual and she said it on "Today" last Friday. Yet the actual facts are that anti-semitism is heavily entrenched in muslim society as has become even more obvious with the anti-semitic chants of the pro-Hamas chants on the London marches. My point is that our politicians should also be calling for the muslim communities to stamp out their anti-semitism. As for RR's point, the OP conforms entirely to the requirements of the Mind Zone. It's a pity that some of the replies have been off-topic (like yours). Well no, Steppenwolf. Your thread title claims that the German President has called for a "loyalty pledge" from muslim people, the article in support makes no such claim or anything remotely approaching it. You were telling lies. Can't say I have heard of Ralph Schoellhammer but if he says what you claim he says, he sounds like a complete fool.
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Post by see2 on Jan 29, 2024 10:06:41 GMT
The gist of the first comment would have been loved by the likes of Goebbels, a shameful comment. Ah typical, roll out of the word "shameful" in a sad attempt to win an argument lol. Please prove me wrong, provide me with a post where you have talked about the great things that the UK / capitalism has achieved? While you are at it, show us where you have posted anything about a positive vision of the future, instead of "grrr evil tories picking on the working class". And your comment about Goebbels proved my point, you are just too thick to see it hahaha. I must have dreamt Emily Thornberry losing her job for mocking somebody flying an English flag DURING THE WORLD CUP hahaha. Neil Coyle didn't call Brexit voters "fat old racists" and "shitbag racist wankers"? Clive Lewis didn't say "racism was to blame for Brexit"? David Lammy didn't compare Brexiteers to Nazis either? lol.... I could literally list another dozen Labour MPs calling people Nazis. I think you owe me an apology for your "shamefully" slander. 1. There was no argument to be won, your posted accusations were extreme and unprovable. And IMO were a shameful attack on many people who will have no way of challenging you on your comment. 2. & 3. Most of my time is spent on being objective about situations or in negating the lies, insinuated lies and general derogation that is used by some Righties on this Forum. 4. Silliness that exists in your posts, that have absolutely nothing to do with me or my political stance, expanded to the point of insults which is so typical of the language used by so many Righties on this Forum. YOU DO owe me an apology.
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Post by see2 on Jan 29, 2024 10:18:13 GMT
It does lead to a wider conversation on identity. The majority left/middle is pushing self-hate of our history, and peddling victimhood, whilst saying pride in ones nation makes you a Nazi. The growing Muslims population is going to bring back problems of the past, where large numbers of people identify by religion, not by nationality. Personally, I think we need to bring back national service pronto, and use that and other methods to try to build back up a sense of national identity. If we do nothing, we will continue to divide ourselves, and become weaker and weaker... and history has shown what happens then... the once great civilisation collapses and is conquered. I was listening to Ralph Schoellhammer the other day (who BTW is a total genius IMO) and he was arguing that the old definitions such as Left and Right now need redefinition. The Left are now are defined by their hatred of their own country and the Right by democracy and patriotism. I think this is a very accurate broad definition of the new political line. He went on to say that the British Left spend their time apologising for almost everything the UK has done - seeking "atonement". But he said, speaking as a German, he knows what it's like to be from a country that NEEDS to seek atonement for its historical deeds - but the UK has NO reason to be apologising. Most of what we've done has been with the best of intentions and has helped the world. (The obvious exception being Blair's disastrous wars in the ME). It's time to stop apologising and start targeting the real culprits.. If the reference was to far-Left and far-Right thinking his comments might have made some sense. There are no such things as THE Left and THE Right. They are both a mixture of opinions that cover a wide range of political thinking. And sometimes overlap each other. Blair's actions were legal and done for the best reasons at that time. Hindsight comments should be objective.
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Post by sandypine on Jan 29, 2024 11:16:45 GMT
dont shoot the messenger. Im not responsible for the nasty anti English , anti Scottish and welsh comments by the likes of foulkes thorn berry and Robertson past and present. Labour hate the nations of the uk , as has been claimed above. Yours is an over the top superficial comment, that possibly gets fed by sad individuals in the bar room after a few pints. I have traveled to all points of these Islands plus a number of visits to Ireland. I have heard a number or low level comments against member countries of the UK, but I have only ever heard, or over heard, two bitter comments against a member country and they were against England. There is a major difference between throw away comments and hate. However amongst the 'establishment' largely defined as those with some form of power there is a tendency to be very anti-British and offer support to those who see Britain as some form of malign influence upon the world in general. The evidence for this is in numerous things that are said and done and the effects of enacted policies upon 'the British'. There is little doubt that the British homeland has been allowed to be significantly changed as a matter of policy over the last 60 or so years all in the name of anti-racism, fairness, equality etc. Diversity did not raise its ugly head until later but is now a principle set in stone that historically is easily shown to be the bedrock of dissent and division. The Labour party once hailed as the very essence of working man Britain is now little more than a management club wishing to be in the manager's seat and generally making a fist of it when allowed. The tragedy of the UK is that the Tories are now exactly the same and the LibDems best left well alone.
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Post by dappy on Jan 29, 2024 11:30:48 GMT
Lots of words Sandy, but no substance. Its opinion rather than fact , so unlike Steppenwolf's opening inaccurate factual post, it is legitimate to post but lacks any detail. So perhaps you could give me three examples of when "the establishment" have acted in a way that is deliberately "anti-British"?
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Post by bancroft on Jan 29, 2024 11:36:25 GMT
sandypineI think the Tories are different yet only recently. Brexit has changed things as the Establishment did not want it just look at what happened with the Theresa May debacle. Now they have accepted it yet under Labour I think we would have been forced to vote again. The Tories are in a fight not just with Labour yet with the US Democrats too though not officially stated and this is why the Supreme Court is seen to be the winner currently. Blair established the Supreme Court!
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 29, 2024 13:54:37 GMT
The title is a statement of fact and I've provided a factual link from DW. The point of the thread is that Germany is experiencing exactly the same problems with increasing anti-Semitism as we are in England - and like England their politicians have been reluctant to attribute this to the rapid increase in their muslim population. They've simply attacked anti-semitism. But the German president has addressed the Arab/Palestinian population directly and called for them to speak out against it. Mishal Hussain's response to the German president is to say that anti-seimitism is nothing to do with muslims. This is also factual and she said it on "Today" last Friday. Yet the actual facts are that anti-semitism is heavily entrenched in muslim society as has become even more obvious with the anti-semitic chants of the pro-Hamas chants on the London marches. My point is that our politicians should also be calling for the muslim communities to stamp out their anti-semitism. As for RR's point, the OP conforms entirely to the requirements of the Mind Zone. It's a pity that some of the replies have been off-topic (like yours). Well no, Steppenwolf. Your thread title claims that the German President has called for a "loyalty pledge" from muslim people, the article in support makes no such claim or anything remotely approaching it. You were telling lies. Can't say I have heard of Ralph Schoellhammer but if he says what you claim he says, he sounds like a complete fool. I didn't put the phrase "loyalty pledge" in quotes if you look at the original post. That phrase was used by Mishal Hussein when she predictably rejected what the German president had said. She was referring to the following quote: " Then he addressed the "Palestinian and Arab community in our country" and told them: "Nor will we allow anti-Muslim racism or a blanket veil of suspicion against Muslims." Later, he added: "Don't let yourselves be instrumentalized by Hamas! Speak up for yourselves! Say no to terror!" This was rejected by Hussain as a call to the muslims to pledge loyalty from them to reject anti-semitism. As she said. why should they when it's got nothing to do with the muslims. Frankly it's laughable that anyone can try to claim that there isn't a very high correlation between anti-semitism and being a muslim. Regarding Ralph Schoellhammer, as a self-confessed Lib-Dim I think most of what he says would be incomprehensible to you.
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