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Post by Vinny on Jan 24, 2024 10:32:12 GMT
Isn't it weird how people who pretend to be against fascism, fascistically endorse the total suppression of democracy?
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 10:56:05 GMT
Isn't it weird how people who pretend to be against fascism, fascistically endorse the total suppression of democracy? There's no such thing as 'democracy'. There are different forms. There is liberal democracy and majoritarian democracy. Majoritarian democracy says that a majority vote is sufficient to justify anything. So, the majoritarians say that even the reelection of a Nazi party that intends to continue Hitler's policies is legitimate if a mere majority votes for that party. Liberal democrats say that tyranny by the majority is wrong, and that only those parties which recognise that fundamental rights cannot be voted away are legitimately democratic. For a liberal democrat, it is not democratic to pursue a policy that allows 51% of the population to kill, incarcerate, or otherwise deny the fundamental rights of the other 49%. Majoritarians think otherwise. You are a majoritarian populist. Both majoritarianism and liberalism are forms of democracy. Most countries operate the liberal democratic model.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 24, 2024 11:32:50 GMT
Do you approve of her and her party? It's not up to me to approve anything - they represent a strata of political opinion in the same way as the Communist Party and the murderous bastards who run Sein Fein.
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 11:36:54 GMT
Do you approve of her and her party? It's not up to me to approve anything - they represent a strata of political opinion in the same way as the Communist Party and the murderous bastards who run Sein Fein. The Nazi party also represented a strata of political opinion.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 24, 2024 11:45:42 GMT
It's not up to me to approve anything - they represent a strata of political opinion in the same way as the Communist Party and the murderous bastards who run Sein Fein. The Nazi party also represented a strata of political opinion. and? - who is arguing? Hamas have the overwhelming support of a majority of Palestinians - should the Palestinians not be allowed the choice over who represents their interests?
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 11:48:47 GMT
The Nazi party also represented a strata of political opinion. and? - who is arguing? Hamas have the overwhelming support of a majority of Palestinians - should the Palestinians not be allowed the choice over who represents their interests? That depends on what Hamas plan to do and whether you're a liberal democrat or a majoritarian.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 24, 2024 11:52:02 GMT
and? - who is arguing? Hamas have the overwhelming support of a majority of Palestinians - should the Palestinians not be allowed the choice over who represents their interests? That depends on what Hamas plan to do and whether you're a liberal democrat or a majoritarian. Hmas plan to wipe out Israel and all the Jews in it.. ..surely this is not a surprise?
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 11:58:51 GMT
That depends on what Hamas plan to do and whether you're a liberal democrat or a majoritarian. Hmas plan to wipe out Israel and all the Jews in it.. ..surely this is not a surprise? Well, a majoritarian will say they have the right to do it if a majority of people vote for them. It seems that you're a majoritarian, so you'll understand that.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 24, 2024 12:59:03 GMT
Banning the opposition, what a cunning wheeze. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 13:04:12 GMT
Banning the opposition, what a cunning wheeze. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Yeah, nothing went wrong the last time a far-right party held power in Germany, Squeaks.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 24, 2024 13:19:15 GMT
Does anyone know what their policies are? If not, you have no grounds on which to approve of them or approve a ban.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 24, 2024 13:40:05 GMT
Ukraine is riddled with supporters of far right factions afaik and has been for many years . That didn’t stop the EU and the US pulling it out io Russias sphere of influence. Unless this new German party is proven to be a Nazi clone then the comparison is pointless .
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 24, 2024 15:23:59 GMT
Hmas plan to wipe out Israel and all the Jews in it.. ..surely this is not a surprise? Well, a majoritarian will say they have the right to do it if a majority of people vote for them. It seems that you're a majoritarian, so you'll understand that. They have a right to try - and as we currently see in Gaza, Israel has a right to respond. It's rather ironic that you bang on about these 'fundamental rights' (whatever they are) and at the same time wish to remove the right of people to decide for themselves who they want to vote for.. Bizarre..
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 24, 2024 16:43:18 GMT
Well, a majoritarian will say they have the right to do it if a majority of people vote for them. It seems that you're a majoritarian, so you'll understand that. They have a right to try - and as we currently see in Gaza, Israel has a right to respond. It's rather ironic that you bang on about these 'fundamental rights' (whatever they are) and at the same time wish to remove the right of people to decide for themselves who they want to vote for.. Bizarre.. Well, you would think that. You're a majoritarian populist. A liberal democrat doesn't see a government that attacks fundamental rights (killing, incarcerating on a whim, etc.) as legitimate democracy. For a liberal democrat, the very purpose of democracy is to protect the weak from the strong. So, a government that kills or incarcerates, or otherwise denies fundamental rights to a minority is not a democratic government, even if a tyrannical majority voted for them. 'It's the will of the majority' is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for atrocities and fundamental abuse of basic rights. That said, majoritarianism is still recognised as a form of democracy, albeit a very dubious one (from the viewpoint of a liberal democrat). You can support a far-right racist party like the AfD and still claim to be a democrat. Your problem is that those who oppose them and their foul far-right policies are also democrats.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 24, 2024 17:35:49 GMT
I'd suggest that is at the very least debatable. If you'd written 'most western countries' that would certainly be unarguable but I suspect there are many more countries outside that small circle that style themselves as democracies that have not adopted a 'liberal model'.
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