Welsh Independence

We had this over on the Scottish threads though with sandy Bancroft bless him , and if sandy is who you are getting your information from regarding Irish history , you would be better off reading wikipedia.

Whatever the argument of who conquered ireland in the 12th century , and all the puerile excuses , the fact of the matter is over the centuries , the Irish fought back , drove out the English , absorbed many of the anglo normans , so that by the 16th century , Englands possessions in Ireland was reduced down to what they call the pale of Dublin. You have heard of the English saying beyond the pale?

Well pale comes from Norman French , which literally meant a fence post. so beyond the boundaries , or fence of the land that was theirs.

The point is , Henry 8th was so incensed that he ordered what we call the Tudor reconquests of ireland. You can read about it yourself , but no one can blame the French or anyone else for what was an English reconquest of ireland in the 16th century.

second point , the union of 1707 was a shotgun marriage. Members of the Scottish parliament were bribed into union , and the English army and navy was massed around the Scottish border and off the coast of scotland.

your third point regarding modern debt , it was scotland that was indebted with English debts in 1707 and afterwards. The union was an economic disaster for scotland , our economy according to historians like Michael Lynch fell off a cliff for the next century , where before it was growing at 2.5% per annum in the decade leading up to union.

Scotlands national debt in 1707 was £160 000 , one years revenue. England was £18 million , three years revenue. Scotlands population comprised of one seventh of the new British states population , so scotland was made to take one seventh of Englands massive debts , approx 2 half million pounds. To offset this disastrous financial arrangement scotland was given just under £400 000 , and higher union taxes imposed. This sums was infamously called the equivalent.

 Now you tell me Bancroft. By my poor workings out , as a lowly jock , scotland was £ 2 million 1oo thousand pounds worse off before we take into account anything else at the offset. 

 Today ,since 1999 , for every pound we have had taken from us by the English treasury , we have got back 55 pence to spend on ourselves. 

 We are forced to pay off a share of Englands current debt , and contribute to English only projects like hs2 and London cross rail. Scotland is under no obligation after independence whatsoever to pay a single penny of Englands collosul debts.


 

whats wrong with that john?

Dont they all? Is there such a thing as an unbiased commission without baggage?

I suppose the point is they COULD have tried to find people who would not trigger the ‘well, what a fucking surprise .. NOT’ reaction when the so called independent commission comes to its inevitable conclusion.

Giving the anti english racist leanne wood a cushy number after her public display of contempt for the purpose of the assembly is just fucking icing on the cake though.

What's wrong with countries or regions, currently in the UK, wanting independence?

I'm in favour of peoples fending for themselves and deciding their own futures — if they make mistakes, so be it, let them work it out.

Scotland and Wales ought to be able to decide for themselves — as should a region of London & the Home Counties.

Seems to me that Northern Ireland is the difficult one — firstly, who is to decide and, secondly, what should actually be decided (eg, independence, full integration with England and whoever, or absorption by the Republic)...?