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Post by Pacifico on Jan 17, 2024 22:36:12 GMT
I'd like to think so but under the present electoral system I doubt it. Dont forget that supporters of Labour and the LibDems are very keen on tactical voting to keep any opponents away from power. well why not Pacifico , the two party duopoly was broken in Scotland under fptp. why couldn't it be done in england? It was slightly different in Scotland. There the electorate had almost 10 years of the SNP being in power in Holyrood due to the partial PR system in use - England has no equivalent model. Well I would support a change to PR - I believe people should vote for what they want not what the don't. However if Starmer gets a landslide, PR will be the last thing on the Labour Party's agenda - for obvious reasons.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 17, 2024 23:29:12 GMT
Well I would support a change to PR - I believe people should vote for what they want not what the don't. It would certainly likely change the vote for someone like myself who is currently a tactical voter.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 18, 2024 0:30:14 GMT
Most likely outcome is a hung parliament.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 0:40:52 GMT
I understand why some people may think PR might be a good move, but in my sincere opinion, it's a case of the grass is always greener. PR would be an absolute disaster, and once adopted there would be no going back because PR wouldn't allow it. PR leads to weak coalitions, often three or four way coalitions that take months even years to form and never agree on anything, PR will ensure strong majority governments are a thing of the past which is why the EU support PR. Every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures they will never leave the EU. Make no mistake, if the UK used PR we would still be in the EU. FPTP may not be perfect, indeed it isn't perfect, but it's a damned sight better than PR.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 0:42:56 GMT
Well I would support a change to PR - I believe people should vote for what they want not what the don't. It would certainly likely change the vote for someone like myself who is currently a tactical voter. I'm undecided, Tory or Reform, so I guess I'm a tactical voter too.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 18, 2024 0:49:46 GMT
I understand why some people may think PR might be a good move, but in my sincere opinion, it's a case of the grass is always greener. PR would be an absolute disaster, and once adopted there would be no going back because PR wouldn't allow it. PR leads to weak coalitions, often three or four way coalitions that take months even years to form and never agree on anything, PR will ensure strong majority governments are a thing of the past which is why the EU support PR. Every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures they will never leave the EU. Make no mistake, if the UK used PR we would still be in the EU. FPTP may not be perfect, indeed it isn't perfect, but it's a damned sight better than PR. Except that our existing parties are already essentially coalitions. You saw that for Labour under and then post Corbyn, and you're seeing it currently in the Tories. Posters such as yourself and Pacifico want to ditch part of your coalition and rule on your own. The problem is that you both pretend that you represent a majority, when there's no evidence that that is true.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 18, 2024 0:53:31 GMT
It would certainly likely change the vote for someone like myself who is currently a tactical voter. I'm undecided, Tory or Reform, so I guess I'm a tactical voter too. You could be, but it would depend on the reason WHY you cast your vote, rather than WHO you cast your vote for. I'm not really a party type, but I'm probably most likely aligned to the LibDems. However I'm almost certain to vote Labour in this year's GE as my constituency (CovNW) is a straight Tory / Labour fight.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 1:08:42 GMT
I understand why some people may think PR might be a good move, but in my sincere opinion, it's a case of the grass is always greener. PR would be an absolute disaster, and once adopted there would be no going back because PR wouldn't allow it. PR leads to weak coalitions, often three or four way coalitions that take months even years to form and never agree on anything, PR will ensure strong majority governments are a thing of the past which is why the EU support PR. Every EU state uses some form of PR which ensures they will never leave the EU. Make no mistake, if the UK used PR we would still be in the EU. FPTP may not be perfect, indeed it isn't perfect, but it's a damned sight better than PR. Except that our existing parties are already essentially coalitions. You saw that for Labour under and then post Corbyn, and you're seeing it currently in the Tories. Posters such as yourself and Pacifico want to ditch part of your coalition and rule on your own. The problem is that you both pretend that you represent a majority, when there's no evidence that that is true. Rubbish, of course they're not, existing parties are not essentially coalitions. If we had a coalition government tonights proceedings in the HoC would have taken months, in fact such proceedings wouldn't have happened because the protagonists would never have agreed on the proposition.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 1:11:07 GMT
I'm undecided, Tory or Reform, so I guess I'm a tactical voter too. You could be, but it would depend on the reason WHY you cast your vote, rather than WHO you cast your vote for. I'm not really a party type, but I'm probably most likely aligned to the LibDems. However I'm almost certain to vote Labour in this year's GE as my constituency (CovNW) is a straight Tory / Labour fight. LibDems! Christ, I thought you were a lefty, but not that left. The reason Reform UK have overtaken the LibDems as the third party is because the LibDems are barking mad. Of course a woman can have a penis.
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Post by wapentake on Jan 18, 2024 1:19:03 GMT
Most likely outcome is a hung parliament. Well that’s an option but is there a scaffold big enough? Sorry bad taste I know but seriously the biggest losers are ordinary people and democracy too I really don’t know where my vote is going to bin or ballot box?
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 18, 2024 1:22:53 GMT
Except that our existing parties are already essentially coalitions. You saw that for Labour under and then post Corbyn, and you're seeing it currently in the Tories. Posters such as yourself and Pacifico want to ditch part of your coalition and rule on your own. The problem is that you both pretend that you represent a majority, when there's no evidence that that is true. Rubbish, of course they're not, existing parties are not essentially coalitions. If we had a coalition government tonights proceedings in the HoC would have taken months, in fact such proceedings wouldn't have happened because the protagonists would never have agreed on the proposition. Lol, they've taken 3 years, and they don't really! 😂
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 18, 2024 1:24:46 GMT
You could be, but it would depend on the reason WHY you cast your vote, rather than WHO you cast your vote for. I'm not really a party type, but I'm probably most likely aligned to the LibDems. However I'm almost certain to vote Labour in this year's GE as my constituency (CovNW) is a straight Tory / Labour fight. LibDems! Christ, I thought you were a lefty, but not that left. The reason Reform UK have overtaken the LibDems as the third party is because the LibDems are barking mad. Of course a woman can have a penis. I keep pointing out that I not a "lefty", but merely appear so to people with your disposition. As for barking mad, guess I have to plead guilty of that.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 1:35:24 GMT
Rubbish, of course they're not, existing parties are not essentially coalitions. If we had a coalition government tonights proceedings in the HoC would have taken months, in fact such proceedings wouldn't have happened because the protagonists would never have agreed on the proposition. Lol, they've taken 3 years, and they don't really! 😂 3 years! Andrew, in this country we can trace democracy back to 1215, however the present system only goes back to 1832, and it's a system that has stood the test of time. And you speak of the past three years...
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 18, 2024 1:37:23 GMT
LibDems! Christ, I thought you were a lefty, but not that left. The reason Reform UK have overtaken the LibDems as the third party is because the LibDems are barking mad. Of course a woman can have a penis. I keep pointing out that I not a "lefty", but merely appear so to people with your disposition. As for barking mad, guess I have to plead guilty of that. To say you're LibDem but not a lefty is contradiction in terms. I think your vote is probably well placed.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 18, 2024 6:34:36 GMT
Lib Dems are centre left.
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