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Post by Handyman on Nov 20, 2022 11:37:46 GMT
Nonethat of them deserve aconditionsisemany - especially the rail workers. They're lucky to still have a job. As for the nurses they shouldn't be allowed to strike. If they don't like the pay/conditions they can leave - that's all, No right to strike. In any case their average pay is now £37,000, plus they also get pensions that the private sector can only dream about. That's GOOD remuneration. Has for the Nurses they can leave if they dont like the pay or the conditions . Many are doing everyday dont you realise that . Thats why there NHS nursing shortage of 40, 000 And stupid Brexit dosent Releave the staff shortage and that can lay on you and other Brexiteers The NHS workforce is so large they have a large turnover of staff all the time people are leaving retiring moving on, when it comes to Nurses some leave the NHS, but come back to work in the NHS or even Private Hospitals as Agency Staff and are paid more than the NHS Nurses they work alongside, they can choose when they work and how long they work. I think you will find that Nurses from overseas with the correct qualifications are allowed in to join the NHS, blaming Brexit is nonsense |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 20, 2022 12:49:19 GMT
The number of EU nurses coming to the UK has fallen by a staggering 90% since the Brexit vote”This seems to be based on the number of nurses from the European Economic Area(EEA) who came to the UK and registered to work. To work in the UK, nurses need to join the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s (NMC) register. People on this register can beworking in the NHS (in any of the four countries in the UK), the independent sector or perhaps not even working in the profession at all.The number of EEA nurses and midwives who joined the NMC register for the first timerose in the years up to 2015/16 (just before the referendum), before falling by 91% from 2015/16 to 2017/18.
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 20, 2022 16:19:26 GMT
Huh, you disagree that the unions were out of control, yet admit strikes were breaking out at local level in defiance of national instructions??? The Winter of Discontent was literally the height of union stupidity and even the mention of it still hurts Labour today. Why the fuck lefties would want to use that term is beyond logic, you are doing the Tories work for them by helping to push their narrative that today's unions are as militant as the ones that brought the country to its knees in the 70s. I could not disagree with you more. The Unions did not have the means or the authority to control the radicals on the shop floor, it's as simple as that. The only control the Unions have or had on shop floor workers, is that which shop floor workers allowed them to have. Did you expect the TUC to arrest those that didn't follow their advice? I think you must have read too much Tory anti-Union propaganda in the late 1970s, the discontent in the 1970s was a product of the ever worsening conditions, NOT THE CAUSE. Don't you understand that Thatcher came to office on the back of two lies in claiming the problems in the country were caused by Trade Unions and Nationalisation. She lied as she created the perfect foundation for her Right-wing 'corner shop' ideology. I understand everything because I read from all sides, and then form an opinion. Why do you keep talking about the TUC? The TUC don't control the unions, they are their own separate entities. You would have to deaf, dumb and blind to not see how the balance had shifted too far towards the unions in the 60s and 70s. I have always been in union, some good, some bad. The ones I respect the most are the ones that fight for pay and terms and conditions, and don't go out of their way to defend the indefensible. |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 20, 2022 16:25:57 GMT
The number of EU nurses coming to the UK has fallen by a staggering 90% since the Brexit vote”This seems to be based on the number of nurses from the European Economic Area(EEA) who came to the UK and registered to work. To work in the UK, nurses need to join the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s (NMC) register. People on this register can beworking in the NHS (in any of the four countries in the UK), the independent sector or perhaps not even working in the profession at all.The number of EEA nurses and midwives who joined the NMC register for the first timerose in the years up to 2015/16 (just before the referendum), before falling by 91% from 2015/16 to 2017/18. There is a massive COVID effect too. Many nurses were left traumatized by the sheer amount of people dying, including work colleagues, so they have left the profession. Many people returned home during the pandemic to be with their families. It made a lot of people take good hard look at their lives. There are labour shortages all over Europe because of this too. www.eurofound.europa.eu/nb/publications/blog/the-pandemic-aggravated-labour-shortages-in-some-sectors-the-problem-is-now-emerging-in-others |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 20, 2022 16:36:21 GMT
I could not disagree with you more. The Unions did not have the means or the authority to control the radicals on the shop floor, it's as simple as that. The only control the Unions have or had on shop floor workers, is that which shop floor workers allowed them to have. Did you expect the TUC to arrest those that didn't follow their advice? I think you must have read too much Tory anti-Union propaganda in the late 1970s, the discontent in the 1970s was a product of the ever worsening conditions, NOT THE CAUSE. Don't you understand that Thatcher came to office on the back of two lies in claiming the problems in the country were caused by Trade Unions and Nationalisation. She lied as she created the perfect foundation for her Right-wing 'corner shop' ideology. I understand everything because I read from all sides, and then form an opinion. Why do you keep talking about the TUC? The TUC don't control the unions, they are their own separate entities. You would have to deaf, dumb and blind to not see how the balance had shifted too far towards the unions in the 60s and 70s. I have always been in union, some good, some bad. The ones I respect the most are the ones that fight for pay and terms and conditions, and don't go out of their way to defend the indefensible. Indeed. The idea that shop stewards controlled the unions is for the most part bollocks but with a few exceptions. The dockers union in London was a racket in the 60s, ditto the print union in Fleet St and to a degree the Train drivers union and parts of the TGWU . Barbara Castle the Labour minister wanted to reign in the unions in the late 60s with an industrial relations bill called ‘ In place of strife ‘. It didn’t go forward . It took another 15 years for Thatcher to cut the unions balls off . |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 20, 2022 16:55:52 GMT
The number of EU nurses coming to the UK has fallen by a staggering 90% since the Brexit vote”This seems to be based on the number of nurses from the European Economic Area(EEA) who came to the UK and registered to work. To work in the UK, nurses need to join the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s (NMC) register. People on this register can beworking in the NHS (in any of the four countries in the UK), the independent sector or perhaps not even working in the profession at all.The number of EEA nurses and midwives who joined the NMC register for the first timerose in the years up to 2015/16 (just before the referendum), before falling by 91% from 2015/16 to 2017/18. There is a massive COVID effect too. Many nurses were left traumatized by the sheer amount of people dying, including work colleagues, so they have left the profession. Many people returned home during the pandemic to be with their families. It made a lot of people take good hard look at their lives. There are labour shortages all over Europe because of this too. www.eurofound.europa.eu/nb/publications/blog/the-pandemic-aggravated-labour-shortages-in-some-sectors-the-problem-is-now-emerging-in-othersDodgydave if you notice the sortage of EU nurses coming to England of 91% pre dates the covid pandemic there from 2015/2016; and 2017/2018 |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 20, 2022 17:06:11 GMT
Why should we encourage stealing trained nurses from abroad?
Dont their countries need them ?
Afaik there are not foreign nursing academies that produce nurses for export.
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 20, 2022 17:15:45 GMT
Why should we encourage stealing trained nurses from abroad? Dont their countries need them ? Afaik there are not foreign nursing academies that produce nurses for export. A nurse can work wherever they like the decision its totaly theres. just like we get our nurses leaving for America or saudi. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 20, 2022 17:22:02 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 20, 2022 17:47:43 GMT
In terms of bare numbers the amount of EU citizens working in the NHS has actually gone up since 2016 - but as a percentage of the total workforce they have fallen. So anyone can pick whatever numbers they like to make their point..  |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 20, 2022 17:50:40 GMT
Why should we encourage stealing trained nurses from abroad? Dont their countries need them ? Afaik there are not foreign nursing academies that produce nurses for export. A nurse can work wherever they like the decision its totaly theres. just like we get our nurses leaving for America or saudi. I never said they could not . Better to make a strawman than answer a question,eh? |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 20, 2022 22:57:19 GMT
It is complicated. My missus is a senior nurse with a degree and two masters, but if she went to Canada none of her qualifications would be recognised and she would have to start at the bottom. When the NHS actively recruits from abroad they choose countries with similar systems and people with good english. Freedom of Movement was a nightmare, you could find yourself facing all sorts of discrimination laws if you told an EU citizen they couldn't have the job based on their shit english skills. When I was at Waitrose they had a section of the warehouse that was staffed by Polish people with zero English... you couldn't ask them anything... you had to find the Line Manager whose sole purpose seemed to be a translator between management and the warehouse staff lol. The naming calling is just a political point to try to point to racism as being behind Brexit. All healthcare professionals get dogs abuse from patients and relatives. They are dealing with people are who are ill and not thinking / acting straight / have no filter... and their relatives are under huge strain too. If you haven't got a thick skin, then you need to find a new profession. |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 21, 2022 9:43:51 GMT
The number of EU nurses coming to the UK has fallen by a staggering 90% since the Brexit vote”This seems to be based on the number of nurses from the European Economic Area(EEA) who came to the UK and registered to work. To work in the UK, nurses need to join the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s (NMC) register. People on this register can beworking in the NHS (in any of the four countries in the UK), the independent sector or perhaps not even working in the profession at all.The number of EEA nurses and midwives who joined the NMC register for the first timerose in the years up to 2015/16 (just before the referendum), before falling by 91% from 2015/16 to 2017/18. Last time I checked 80% of the people working within the NHS are British Citizens, the NHS has been struggling for years because of the size of the population too many people needing treatment every 24 hours, that is why the NHS has such a large workforce. When it comes to Nurses the Government is training more nurses and Doctors from within the UK, however, to train a nurse, midwife takes three years, for a junior Doctor about 7 years just to get them on the first rung of the ladder, their training never stops, the long-term aim is to be less reliant on Nurses and Doctors from overseas Which IMO is a very wise move, because some of the nursing staff my wife works with are from overseas, they are here to earn money to send some of it back to their families, some have worked in other countries before arriving in the UK, there intention is not to stay here for ever but to go home after a few years |
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Post by see2 on Nov 21, 2022 10:35:57 GMT
I could not disagree with you more. The Unions did not have the means or the authority to control the radicals on the shop floor, it's as simple as that. The only control the Unions have or had on shop floor workers, is that which shop floor workers allowed them to have. Did you expect the TUC to arrest those that didn't follow their advice? I think you must have read too much Tory anti-Union propaganda in the late 1970s, the discontent in the 1970s was a product of the ever worsening conditions, NOT THE CAUSE. Don't you understand that Thatcher came to office on the back of two lies in claiming the problems in the country were caused by Trade Unions and Nationalisation. She lied as she created the perfect foundation for her Right-wing 'corner shop' ideology. I understand everything because I read from all sides, and then form an opinion. Why do you keep talking about the TUC? The TUC don't control the unions, they are their own separate entities. You would have to deaf, dumb and blind to not see how the balance had shifted too far towards the unions in the 60s and 70s. I have always been in union, some good, some bad. The ones I respect the most are the ones that fight for pay and terms and conditions, and don't go out of their way to defend the indefensible. 1. You might read from both sides but you clearly miss the obvious propaganda. 2.. Trades Union Congress - Wikipedia The Trades Union Congress (TUC) is a national trade union centre, a federation of trade unions in England and Wales, representing the majority of trade unions.3. I am very aware that in the 60s and 70s the growing discontent amongst many working people followed the growing weakness in the economy. 4. Of course. Similar to myself. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 21, 2022 10:45:47 GMT
I understand everything because I read from all sides, and then form an opinion. Why do you keep talking about the TUC? The TUC don't control the unions, they are their own separate entities. You would have to deaf, dumb and blind to not see how the balance had shifted too far towards the unions in the 60s and 70s. I have always been in union, some good, some bad. The ones I respect the most are the ones that fight for pay and terms and conditions, and don't go out of their way to defend the indefensible. Indeed. The idea that shop stewards controlled the unions is for the most part bollocks but with a few exceptions. The dockers union in London was a racket in the 60s, ditto the print union in Fleet St and to a degree the Train drivers union and parts of the TGWU . Barbara Castle the Labour minister wanted to reign in the unions in the late 60s with an industrial relations bill called ‘ In place of strife ‘. It didn’t go forward . It took another 15 years for Thatcher to cut the unions balls off . Along with those of an extra 3million unemployed. Mind you, I think it would have been a very different world back in the 1970s if Wild Cat Strikes had been made illegal then. We did have to wait for Thatcher to do that. |
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