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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 18, 2022 18:19:53 GMT
Looks like the fire fighters are going to the ballot box to vote whether they strike.
Winter of discontent seems on
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 19, 2022 3:17:43 GMT
Looks like the fire fighters are going to the ballot box to vote whether they strike. Winter of discontent seems on I'm dismayed by lefties using the term "winter of discontent" to describe what is happening now. It is counterproductive to your arguments, because the winter of discontent was famous for many negative things, namely Labour infighting, and out of control unions. It took Labour 16 years to recover!! You are playing straight into the hands of opponents who want to label the unions militant and accuse them of being out of control again. So instead of talking about winters of discontent, keep it simple and less inflamatory: "Workers are striking because wages are not keeping up with inflation, and to protect their terms and conditions." |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 19, 2022 8:13:12 GMT
I dont think it really matters what you call it at some point the Labour Party are going to have to decide whose side they are on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 8:16:45 GMT
I dont think it really matters what you call it at some point the Labour Party are going to have to decide whose side they are on. What evidence are you using to support your claim that 'the Labour party do not know whose side they are on'? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 19, 2022 8:21:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 9:06:06 GMT
Is this an answer to my inquiry? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 9:09:06 GMT
By agreeing to lift pensions and benefits by the rate of inflation, the government is more or less accepting and agreeing that anything less than the rate of inflation would be unfair and unreasonable.
So WHY is it acceptable that public sector workers should accept BELOW inflation pay rises ?
Especially considering that most public sector workers have had their pay reduced in real terms over the past 10 years, due to pay freezes and below inflation imposed pay awards.
Yes - I think there very well could be a "Winter Of Discontent", and I fully support our public sector workers
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 19, 2022 9:22:59 GMT
Looks like the fire fighters are going to the ballot box to vote whether they strike. Winter of discontent seems on I'm dismayed by lefties using the term "winter of discontent" to describe what is happening now. It is counterproductive to your arguments, because the winter of discontent was famous for many negative things, namely Labour infighting, and out of control unions. It took Labour 16 years to recover!! You are playing straight into the hands of opponents who want to label the unions militant and accuse them of being out of control again. So instead of talking about winters of discontent, keep it simple and less inflamatory: "Workers are striking because wages are not keeping up with inflation, and to protect their terms and conditions."
And, in the case of many public sector workers, have been on a decade long pay freeze already.
But of course the left won't be able to resist weaponising the issue and it won't play out well for Labour.
Defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2022 9:27:13 GMT
I agree - the ORIGINAL "Winter of Discontent" 1978, was a very different situation
Many of the strikes were about unreasonable demands, wage claims way above the rate of inflation, and militants.
The militant unions of that Winter handed the 1979 election on a silver plate to Margaret Thatcher, they were to blame.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 19, 2022 9:33:53 GMT
I dont think it really matters what you call it at some point the Labour Party are going to have to decide whose side they are on.
Starmer has clearly grasped how toxic the issue could be for Labour. The question is whether he can keep the loons on message.
And I don't rate his chances.
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Post by see2 on Nov 19, 2022 10:09:40 GMT
Looks like the fire fighters are going to the ballot box to vote whether they strike. Winter of discontent seems on I'm dismayed by lefties using the term "winter of discontent" to describe what is happening now. It is counterproductive to your arguments, because the winter of discontent was famous for many negative things, namely Labour infighting, and out of control unions. It took Labour 16 years to recover!! You are playing straight into the hands of opponents who want to label the unions militant and accuse them of being out of control again. So instead of talking about winters of discontent, keep it simple and less inflamatory: "Workers are striking because wages are not keeping up with inflation, and to protect their terms and conditions." I agree with the gist of your post, but I would dispute the "out of control unions". The Trade Union Congress had an agreement with the Labour government to restrict wage claims to 5%. It was jumped up trouble makers on the shop floor who seemed to think they knew best how to run the country, that agitated for higher wage increases. Especially amongst the low paid workers. All they achieved was to open the doors wide for extremist Thatcher to gain power. |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 20, 2022 2:11:30 GMT
I'm dismayed by lefties using the term "winter of discontent" to describe what is happening now. It is counterproductive to your arguments, because the winter of discontent was famous for many negative things, namely Labour infighting, and out of control unions. It took Labour 16 years to recover!! You are playing straight into the hands of opponents who want to label the unions militant and accuse them of being out of control again. So instead of talking about winters of discontent, keep it simple and less inflamatory: "Workers are striking because wages are not keeping up with inflation, and to protect their terms and conditions." I agree with the gist of your post, but I would dispute the "out of control unions". The Trade Union Congress had an agreement with the Labour government to restrict wage claims to 5%. It was jumped up trouble makers on the shop floor who seemed to think they knew best how to run the country, that agitated for higher wage increases. Especially amongst the low paid workers. All they achieved was to open the doors wide for extremist Thatcher to gain power. Huh, you disagree that the unions were out of control, yet admit strikes were breaking out at local level in defiance of national instructions??? The Winter of Discontent was literally the height of union stupidity and even the mention of it still hurts Labour today. Why the fuck lefties would want to use that term is beyond logic, you are doing the Tories work for them by helping to push their narrative that today's unions are as militant as the ones that brought the country to its knees in the 70s. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 20, 2022 2:36:00 GMT
Excellent, just what we need right now don't you think. We just got through covid, the government are £trillions in debt, we are being invaded from the EU state of France, eco mentalists want us to go back to the stone age, Putin's war is destabilising the global economy, and left wing trade unions want everyone out on strike. What you don't understand is, this is not good for Labour. The majority of people in this country just want to get to work, if left wing unions and left wing eco mentalists stop people getting to work, do you think it will endear them to support Labour? I think one will get killed sooner or later. You can take the piss out of some people but not others and I believe it is only a matter of time because someone comes along and punches their lights out so hard that they drop dead, or the other possibility is one dies from doing something really bloody stupid, which most of them are. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 20, 2022 9:24:54 GMT
I agree with the gist of your post, but I would dispute the "out of control unions". The Trade Union Congress had an agreement with the Labour government to restrict wage claims to 5%. It was jumped up trouble makers on the shop floor who seemed to think they knew best how to run the country, that agitated for higher wage increases. Especially amongst the low paid workers. All they achieved was to open the doors wide for extremist Thatcher to gain power. Huh, you disagree that the unions were out of control, yet admit strikes were breaking out at local level in defiance of national instructions??? The Winter of Discontent was literally the height of union stupidity and even the mention of it still hurts Labour today. Why the fuck lefties would want to use that term is beyond logic, you are doing the Tories work for them by helping to push their narrative that today's unions are as militant as the ones that brought the country to its knees in the 70s. I could not disagree with you more. The Unions did not have the means or the authority to control the radicals on the shop floor, it's as simple as that. The only control the Unions have or had on shop floor workers, is that which shop floor workers allowed them to have. Did you expect the TUC to arrest those that didn't follow their advice? I think you must have read too much Tory anti-Union propaganda in the late 1970s, the discontent in the 1970s was a product of the ever worsening conditions, NOT THE CAUSE. Don't you understand that Thatcher came to office on the back of two lies in claiming the problems in the country were caused by Trade Unions and Nationalisation. She lied as she created the perfect foundation for her Right-wing 'corner shop' ideology. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 20, 2022 11:14:03 GMT
Huh, you disagree that the unions were out of control, yet admit strikes were breaking out at local level in defiance of national instructions??? The Winter of Discontent was literally the height of union stupidity and even the mention of it still hurts Labour today. Why the fuck lefties would want to use that term is beyond logic, you are doing the Tories work for them by helping to push their narrative that today's unions are as militant as the ones that brought the country to its knees in the 70s. I could not disagree with you more. The Unions did not have the means or the authority to control the radicals on the shop floor, it's as simple as that. The only control the Unions have or had on shop floor workers, is that which shop floor workers allowed them to have. Did you expect the TUC to arrest those that didn't follow their advice? I think you must have read too much Tory anti-Union propaganda in the late 1970s, the discontent in the 1970s was a product of the ever worsening conditions, NOT THE CAUSE. Don't you understand that Thatcher came to office on the back of two lies in claiming the problems in the country were caused by Trade Unions and Nationalisation. She lied as she created the perfect foundation for her Right-wing 'corner shop' ideology. With unions I think you find each drives the other, much as it is with politicians and voting public. |
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