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Post by Handyman on Nov 11, 2022 12:31:53 GMT
Well that’s a first. A LABOUR leader demanding the party’s elected MPs NOT engage on the picket lines. God, I remember Kim Howells organising the ones that killed to stop blacklegs, and being found shredding papers faster than ENRON when the police finally bothered to come for him Are you referring to the incidence of two idiots dumping a chunk of concrete into the path of oncoming traffic on a motorway? I remember that the two men were convicted of murder if I remember correctly, I also remember the Flying Pickets thugs bussed in to attack the workers who crossed the picket lines. The majority of workers today are not members of a Union they are no longer forced to be in one as many were years ago if they did not join, they could work in the bad old days of closed shops, the Union decided who did or did not work the employers. Today there is legislation in place in relation to holding a strike, the days of wildcat strikes simply walking out when ordered by the Union to do so are over, in order to call an official strike as I think only 40% of the Union members in that particular workplace have to vote in favour of strike action, that to me is not democratic it should be at least 50% of them or 51%, if the none Union members want to they can keep on working without fear of repercussions that used to happen
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 11, 2022 13:00:35 GMT
Handymen you are mainly correct about the rules affecting the unions But the vote what is casted in a secret ballet its 50% of members And I think the royal collage of nurses have voted in there 106 yr history To strike and I tink the vote got 80% majority in favour of strike Action
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 11, 2022 13:26:39 GMT
Nonethat of them deserve aconditionsisemany - especially the rail workers. They're lucky to still have a job. As for the nurses they shouldn't be allowed to strike. If they don't like the pay/conditions they can leave - that's all, No right to strike. In any case their average pay is now £37,000, plus they also get pensions that the private sector can only dream about. That's GOOD remuneration. Has for the Nurses they can leave if they dont like the pay or the conditions . Many are doing everyday dont you realise that . Thats why there NHS nursing shortage of 40, 000 And stupid Brexit dosent Releave the staff shortage and that can lay on you and other Brexiteers . It's nothing to do with Brexit. The bottom line is that our GDP is now lower than it was in 2019. So people can't rationally expect to be earning more now than in 2019 - especially public sector workers who depend on the private sector for their wages. That's the way it works. This country has been living beyond its means for decades and we've been printing money to fund it. It can't continue indefinitely. I know many people think that the nurses should be given a good pay rise, but if you look at it logically the nurses are the least deserving - except possibly for the rail workers - because: 1) The reason that we're in so much debt is that we have printed so much money. That was partly because of Brown's credit crunch and more recently because Sunak printed even more for furlough. 2) The reason that we introduced furlough is because we had to pay for lockdowns. 3) And the reason that we "had" to lockdown is to "save the NHS". 4) Who were the greatest beneficiaries of lockdown? The nurses and doctors - and the rail workers of course many of whom didn't even have to go to work to get 80% pay. So the nurses have been protected by a money printing scheme which has caused inflation. Yet they're now saying that they want their pay to be raised to compensate for inflation. Fuck off. Unless the govt have completely lost their marbles (entirely possible) they will completely reject this. They're very well paid already. And raising their pay will just mean that we can afford even fewer nurses. I suggest we lower their pay.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 11, 2022 14:51:44 GMT
Sandy talking about the ordinary uk citizen has Benifited from the Elephant in the Room brexit especially the ordinary uk citizens are more and more getting disscontant with Brexit lncluding them that voted leave. And please tell me how the Govenment are restricting our lives. has for the other the other things the Govenment spend there money on they done that for decades And with Brexit , covid and the war inflation stands at 10.7 a record 40yr high Foreign aid, the promise of climate change reparations, banning internal combustion engines sometime soon, putting illegal migrants in hotels whilst ordinary Brits struggle to get anything when they are desperate, the whole green agenda whereby price is used to restrict the man in street whilst price also means that many others can go on as they please (heated swimming pool and private jet anyone?). Soon to be with you central bank digital currency, ID cards, Carbon trading, Carbon rationing, farming restrictions and movement limitations. Who is to blame for inflation? It is not Brexit as the US is higher and strangely the Eurozone has identical inflation but no Brexit to blame.
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Post by see2 on Nov 11, 2022 16:01:57 GMT
Are you referring to the incidence of two idiots dumping a chunk of concrete into the path of oncoming traffic on a motorway? I remember that the two men were convicted of murder if I remember correctly, I also remember the Flying Pickets thugs bussed in to attack the workers who crossed the picket lines. The majority of workers today are not members of a Union they are no longer forced to be in one as many were years ago if they did not join, they could work in the bad old days of closed shops, the Union decided who did or did not work the employers. Today there is legislation in place in relation to holding a strike, the days of wildcat strikes simply walking out when ordered by the Union to do so are over, in order to call an official strike as I think only 40% of the Union members in that particular workplace have to vote in favour of strike action, that to me is not democratic it should be at least 50% of them or 51%, if the none Union members want to they can keep on working without fear of repercussions that used to happen I have in numerous posts said that the only credit I can give to Thatcher is that she made wild cat strikes illegal. I also recall that it was not the Unions that caused so many problems, it was jumped up troublemakers on the shop floor who took advantage of the many pissed off workers who felt they had been used and abused for too long. I also recall that inflation had been dramatically reduced in 1978/9 to around 9% and the Trade Union Congress had agreed with the government to push for a wage claim of 5%. Many disillusioned workers decided they wanted a larger pay rise. Especially the very low paid.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 17, 2022 8:51:56 GMT
Very true....
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Post by borchester on Nov 17, 2022 9:22:00 GMT
Has for the Nurses they can leave if they dont like the pay or the conditions . Many are doing everyday dont you realise that . Thats why there NHS nursing shortage of 40, 000 And stupid Brexit dosent Releave the staff shortage and that can lay on you and other Brexiteers . It's nothing to do with Brexit. The bottom line is that our GDP is now lower than it was in 2019. So people can't rationally expect to be earning more now than in 2019 - especially public sector workers who depend on the private sector for their wages. That's the way it works. This country has been living beyond its means for decades and we've been printing money to fund it. It can't continue indefinitely. I know many people think that the nurses should be given a good pay rise, but if you look at it logically the nurses are the least deserving - except possibly for the rail workers - because: 1) The reason that we're in so much debt is that we have printed so much money. That was partly because of Brown's credit crunch and more recently because Sunak printed even more for furlough. 2) The reason that we introduced furlough is because we had to pay for lockdowns. 3) And the reason that we "had" to lockdown is to "save the NHS". 4) Who were the greatest beneficiaries of lockdown? The nurses and doctors - and the rail workers of course many of whom didn't even have to go to work to get 80% pay. So the nurses have been protected by a money printing scheme which has caused inflation. Yet they're now saying that they want their pay to be raised to compensate for inflation. Fuck off. Unless the govt have completely lost their marbles (entirely possible) they will completely reject this. They're very well paid already. And raising their pay will just mean that we can afford even fewer nurses. I suggest we lower their pay. True, but strikes aren't about being rational and I always get the feeling with Hunt that he has little idea of what is going on and secretly thinks that the peasantry ought to jolly well buckle down and do as it is told.
Bring back Boris. Admittedly his grasp of economics rarely rises above that of Al Capone, but he is fun and usually gets away with it, as opposed to Berkeley who is just a dreary disaster waiting to happen.
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Post by see2 on Nov 17, 2022 9:52:05 GMT
The winging of yet another Right winger.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 18, 2022 7:04:36 GMT
Are you referring to the incidence of two idiots dumping a chunk of concrete into the path of oncoming traffic on a motorway? I remember that the two men were convicted of murder if I remember correctly, I also remember the Flying Pickets thugs bussed in to attack the workers who crossed the picket lines. The majority of workers today are not members of a Union they are no longer forced to be in one as many were years ago if they did not join, they could work in the bad old days of closed shops I remember those days very well. One of my first student vacation jobs when in uni was at Merrets Bakery making hot cross buns. I had to stand at a conveyor belt wearing a piece of kit right out of ghostbusters that worked like a petrol pump oozing a runny dough that made the cross, standing opposite a co worker that was similarly kitted whose spray gun sprayed sticky bun wash As a tray of 48 buns in a 6x8 array came out of the proving oven my colleague sprayed them with bun wash in an up and down movement then I had to pipe the dough up down up down up down up down left right left right…. Over four weeks I crossed a million hot cross buns. Not many toilet breaks iirc. It was years before the smell of cinnamon didn’t make me want to vomit. The bakers union took a fixed sum from my pay every week, which was paid ‘a week in hand’ actually nearly two weeks as pay day was a Thursday. On the last week i worked there I had to work five hours overtime two and a half hours on each of the last two days and payroll told me they could not pay me the money for that in my final full pay packet they admitted they’d fucked up and said I’d have to come back to get the cash (those were also the days a pay packet held real money) the week after. As the factory was barely a mile and a half from home this was not really a problem. Except when I went back I only received half what I was due. The bakers union demanded, and got, a flat fee from every pay packet. So half my overtime went to them. My MP at the time was a chap called James Callaghan. You Might remember the name … His reply to my complaint the union had stolen half the money owed to me by an employer error was that he could do nothing to correct it. For years I framed the letter and kept it in the hallway to tell labour canvassers if they didn’t get off my fucking drive right now I’d ram it up their area frame and all. BUT While I remember the flying pickets whose concrete block killed the taxi driver taking a blackleg UDM member to work (I think it was the A467 dual carriageway not the M4 by the way) were brought to trial, the Communist Party Officer who directed their picketing and was found by police in the portakabin that served as strike HQ shredding papers for all he was worth was later given high office in the Labour Party after becoming Pontypridd’s MP and later went on to be both a member of the Privy Counsel and our a Companion of Honour, all at Blair’s recommendation That was really my point. Not the rightful destruction of corrupt union power handing control to the Communist Party through Militant Tendency the granddaddy of Momentum, but the way Communist Party Officers were welcomed into the party mainstream and feted with high office.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 18, 2022 7:27:35 GMT
I remember that the two men were convicted of murder if I remember correctly, I also remember the Flying Pickets thugs bussed in to attack the workers who crossed the picket lines. The majority of workers today are not members of a Union they are no longer forced to be in one as many were years ago if they did not join, they could work in the bad old days of closed shops I remember those days very well. One of my first student vacation jobs when in uni was at Merrets Bakery making hot cross buns. I had to stand at a conveyor belt wearing a piece of kit right out of ghostbusters that worked like a petrol pump oozing a runny dough that made the cross, I remember even earlier days when the cross was put on by brushing sugar water.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 18, 2022 7:46:40 GMT
I remember those days very well. One of my first student vacation jobs when in uni was at Merrets Bakery making hot cross buns. I had to stand at a conveyor belt wearing a piece of kit right out of ghostbusters that worked like a petrol pump oozing a runny dough that made the cross, I remember even earlier days when the cross was put on by brushing sugar water. I suppose I shouldn’t knock it too much. The proceeds from that, and a fortnight working in upmarket retailer Howells, a department store I swear to god was the inspiration for Grace Brothers, the head of ladies footwear looking a dead ringer for Captain Peacock, paid for Moira’s engagement ring. But those were days when jobs at the NMW end of the scale received wages that paid all the essential bills council house rent, rates, water rates and gas and electric bills. You even had something left to pay for food.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 18, 2022 7:57:06 GMT
I remember even earlier days when the cross was put on by brushing sugar water. I suppose I shouldn’t knock it too much. The proceeds from that, and a fortnight working in upmarket retailer Howells, a department store I swear to god was the inspiration for Grace Brothers, the head of ladies footwear looking a dead ringer for Captain Peacock, paid for Moira’s engagement ring. But those were days when jobs at the NMW end of the scale received wages that paid all the essential bills council house rent, rates, water rates and gas and electric bills. You even had something left to pay for food. My first job was, as you may have guessed, helping our baker, firstly doing the rounds with him then working in the bakery. No fixed wage but he was generous; I even sometimes worked for him after I left school. In between times I worked at a horticultural nursery, evenings during the summer and a whole week throughout the school holidays for 1/1d per hour. They're just a couple of examples of what I did to earn money as a kid.
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 18, 2022 8:15:06 GMT
I suppose I shouldn’t knock it too much. The proceeds from that, and a fortnight working in upmarket retailer Howells, a department store I swear to god was the inspiration for Grace Brothers, the head of ladies footwear looking a dead ringer for Captain Peacock, paid for Moira’s engagement ring. But those were days when jobs at the NMW end of the scale received wages that paid all the essential bills council house rent, rates, water rates and gas and electric bills. You even had something left to pay for food. My first job was, as you may have guessed, helping our baker, firstly doing the rounds with him then working in the bakery. No fixed wage but he was generous; I even sometimes worked for him after I left school. In between times I worked at a horticultural nursery, evenings during the summer and a whole week throughout the school holidays for 1/1d per hour. They're just a couple of examples of what I did to earn money as a kid. Yeah, it was a different world then. I had a paper round from age ten, which kept me in pocket money all through school. But it was my last year that showed me what a real community meant. The shop owner died of a heart attack while I was out on my round, it was all over and the body removed by the time I got back. His widow literally stepped over the corpse to serve an unwitting customer !! But by 10am a rota of volunteers had been drawn up to keep the place going until she could sort her act out and sell up Over the next few months my younger brother took over my paper round while I put the hour I would have done it serving at the shop (paid) and worked there all the weekend hours it was open. Various parents of the other paper boys and girls stepped up to muck in. This went on for about three months while the guys widow sorted the business paperwork and stuff out, then sold the shop and flat above it on as a going concern and retired to west wales if I recall right. I’m proud of what we did for her and I think rightly so. But all the state did was send me a demand for five quid in income tax the same year they denied me a vote on leaving the common market. Wilson’s infamous referendum. In which at 17 years 9 months old I was too young to have a vote. But as I said not too young to be slapped an income tax demand. I was about to sit my A levels and go to Uni. I had all sorts of student jobs cleaning factories, that one at Merrets and a couple of clerical assistant / clerical officer jobs in the civil service too. And numerous factory jobs. They paid my bar bills and actually a fair bit more. They even paid for the honeymoon. to this day I look at the office cleaners, shop shelf fillers, factory assembly line workers etc and my first thoughts are “yeah, I once did that” and perhaps if more of our politicians were able to say the same this would be a very different country
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Post by Toreador on Nov 18, 2022 8:56:48 GMT
My first job was, as you may have guessed, helping our baker, firstly doing the rounds with him then working in the bakery. No fixed wage but he was generous; I even sometimes worked for him after I left school. In between times I worked at a horticultural nursery, evenings during the summer and a whole week throughout the school holidays for 1/1d per hour. They're just a couple of examples of what I did to earn money as a kid. Yeah, it was a different world then. I had a paper round from age ten, which kept me in pocket money all through school. But it was my last year that showed me what a real community meant. The shop owner died of a heart attack while I was out on my round, it was all over and the body removed by the time I got back. His widow literally stepped over the corpse to serve an unwitting customer !! But by 10am a rota of volunteers had been drawn up to keep the place going until she could sort her act out and sell up Over the next few months my younger brother took over my paper round while I put the hour I would have done it serving at the shop (paid) and worked there all the weekend hours it was open. Various parents of the other paper boys and girls stepped up to muck in. This went on for about three months while the guys widow sorted the business paperwork and stuff out, then sold the shop and flat above it on as a going concern and retired to west wales if I recall right. I’m proud of what we did for her and I think rightly so. But all the state did was send me a demand for five quid in income tax the same year they denied me a vote on leaving the common market. Wilson’s infamous referendum. In which at 17 years 9 months old I was too young to have a vote. But as I said not too young to be slapped an income tax demand. I was about to sit my A levels and go to Uni. I had all sorts of student jobs cleaning factories, that one at Merrets and a couple of clerical assistant / clerical officer jobs in the civil service too. And numerous factory jobs. They paid my bar bills and actually a fair bit more. They even paid for the honeymoon. to this day I look at the office cleaners, shop shelf fillers, factory assembly line workers etc and my first thoughts are “yeah, I once did that” and perhaps if more of our politicians were able to say the same this would be a very different country Many of the kids wasting time and money going to uni would be better off doing the sort of jobs we did whilst they were still at school, thereby getting the work ethic and character ready for a job on leaving school, any job if needs be; BTW I also did a grocery round on a trade bike.
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Post by sheepy on Nov 18, 2022 9:38:28 GMT
Yeah, it was a different world then. I had a paper round from age ten, which kept me in pocket money all through school. But it was my last year that showed me what a real community meant. The shop owner died of a heart attack while I was out on my round, it was all over and the body removed by the time I got back. His widow literally stepped over the corpse to serve an unwitting customer !! But by 10am a rota of volunteers had been drawn up to keep the place going until she could sort her act out and sell up Over the next few months my younger brother took over my paper round while I put the hour I would have done it serving at the shop (paid) and worked there all the weekend hours it was open. Various parents of the other paper boys and girls stepped up to muck in. This went on for about three months while the guys widow sorted the business paperwork and stuff out, then sold the shop and flat above it on as a going concern and retired to west wales if I recall right. I’m proud of what we did for her and I think rightly so. But all the state did was send me a demand for five quid in income tax the same year they denied me a vote on leaving the common market. Wilson’s infamous referendum. In which at 17 years 9 months old I was too young to have a vote. But as I said not too young to be slapped an income tax demand. I was about to sit my A levels and go to Uni. I had all sorts of student jobs cleaning factories, that one at Merrets and a couple of clerical assistant / clerical officer jobs in the civil service too. And numerous factory jobs. They paid my bar bills and actually a fair bit more. They even paid for the honeymoon. to this day I look at the office cleaners, shop shelf fillers, factory assembly line workers etc and my first thoughts are “yeah, I once did that” and perhaps if more of our politicians were able to say the same this would be a very different country Many of the kids wasting time and money going to uni would be better off doing the sort of jobs we did whilst they were still at school, thereby getting the work ethic and character ready for a job on leaving school, any job if needs be; BTW I also did a grocery round on a trade bike. I was just thinking about it, all those decades have gone past, and you all kept voting for the same thing, what actually got any better for it? The youth are now obsessed by the damage to the planet, yet the UK is greener than it has ever been pollution wise in probably the last 300 years, which times have become a lot harder on mental health as every issue becomes a major drama while politicians still run around making a horrible mess of everything under the guise it will be better for you in the long run, I am not so sure they are there to represent anyone but themselves and those who actually fill their pockets. Voting for them is seriously overrated under the guise of democracy.
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